Jane Mayer rocks.
posted by blucevalo at 10:57 AM on July 7, 2006

I thought Libby was Cheney's Cheney!
posted by clevershark at 11:03 AM on July 7, 2006

I thought Libby was Cheney's Cheney!

apparently, he's got another one.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:05 AM on July 7, 2006

what are thoserussian dolls where you open one and find another inside?

They are like that but really fucking evil and scary. No dice on a gis for a good match of something frightening but nested fascists seems fun.

Also this article is very well written, sometimes the New Yorker reminds me why they are so well respected. Thanks for the link.
posted by sourbrew at 11:11 AM on July 7, 2006

damn... curse you nonexistent edit button "those russian"*
posted by sourbrew at 11:12 AM on July 7, 2006

As for the Administration¡¯s legal defense of torture, which Addington played a central role in formulating, Schlesinger said, ¡°No position taken has done more damage to the American reputation in the world¡ªever.¡±

Well ok this, pre-emptive war, and Mr Bush's unilateralism in general.
posted by scheptech at 11:13 AM on July 7, 2006

Hydra indeed. A new fall guy comes out of that administration every few months. By 2008, the masses will be calling for the head of Cheney's assistant's secretary's masseuse's nanny's rabbi's lawyer's cousin.
posted by Terminal Verbosity at 11:14 AM on July 7, 2006

he masses will be calling for the head of Cheney's assistant's secretary's masseuse's nanny's rabbi's lawyer's cousin.

well, if he had something to do with it, too, then why not? sometimes when you look under rocks, all sorts of bugs scurry out.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:22 AM on July 7, 2006

I'd disagree, scheptech. Unilateralism and Pre-emptive war have always been the hallmark of an Imperial Power, but torture -- that's skirting, if not crossing, the line of tyrrany.

Perhaps the unilateral moves and the pre-emptive war have harmed our diplomatic ties with a lot of otherwise sympathetic nations, but in the long run, I believe nothing will hurt the US's reputation worse than the administration's explicit and public approval of torture.
posted by chimaera at 11:29 AM on July 7, 2006

When do we get to the real bad guys, the gnomes of Zurich? Or the Jews. I can never remember who it is. Erm... Templars? Help me out here someone.

Seriously though - no one person can control the government to that extent. It's clearly malcompetence on the part of lots of people* who like wielding power and enhancing their portfolios whilst all the rest of us peons struggle to keep afloat day-to-day.


*I like to call them wankers.
posted by longbaugh at 11:44 AM on July 7, 2006

In those halcyon days immediately following 9/11, and in the years leading up to them, make no mistake--Republicans like Rove, Norquist, Cheney, and Abramoff literally thought that their party was going to rule forever, that Iraq would greet us as liberators and blossom into a democracy overnight, that a 7' tall Yemeni on life support hiding in a cave would be caught and killed, that the US economy could prosper despite massive debt, that magic optimistic pixie powder could save Social Security, etc.

But to paraphrase Rick James, delusion is a powerful drug. And a general lack of competence to do anything right bites them and their 35% figurehead/president in the ass, daily.

Even if McCain wins in 2008, the Republican machine is going to bend over backwards to reinstate (legal) Congressional authority over the POTUS. Bush II was the perfect cipher for their assault on the Constitution, and they're placing their hopes on George Allen to be the next lump of clay they can mold. Not that I'm a fan of Allen, but he's smarter and lot more self-directed than Bush II.

Of course, just watch the shrieks and moans if Hillary manages to win it--Republicans will be decrying her "Imperial Presidency" even before she takes office.

(Oh, and I forgot about wild dogs devouring bloated corpses in a major city like New Orleans. For the entire world to see. That didn't help much either. Heck of a job, Rovie.)
posted by bardic at 11:51 AM on July 7, 2006

no one person can control the government to that extent

read a little more closely, longbaugh. i think the point here is completely consistent with what you say--no one person was responsible for the push to expand the powers of the executive (you might even say, in a sense, "it takes a village"). this is the story of another one of the key players in that push.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:52 AM on July 7, 2006

sometimes when you look under rocks, all sorts of bugs scurry out.

I think the larger point is that everyone in the administration serves at the leisure of Bush and/or Cheney. So when do we hold those two accountable for employing so many amoral assholes?
posted by LooseFilter at 12:04 PM on July 7, 2006

So when do we hold those two accountable for employing so many amoral assholes?

on your marks... get set... GO!
posted by saulgoodman at 12:14 PM on July 7, 2006

scheptech writes "Well ok this, pre-emptive war, and Mr Bush's unilateralism in general."

You can't seriously think that those three things are unrelated, can you?
posted by clevershark at 12:42 PM on July 7, 2006

I thought Libby was Cheney's Cheney!

No, Libby was Cheney's Cheney's Cheney on the label label label....
posted by jonp72 at 1:27 PM on July 7, 2006

Surely, this will...
posted by feloniousmonk at 1:28 PM on July 7, 2006

I'd disagree, scheptech. Unilateralism and Pre-emptive war have always been the hallmark of an Imperial Power, but torture -- that's skirting, if not crossing, the line of tyrrany.

I think regular folk around the world assume torture of some sort, and of whatever legal status, has always been part of how any power helps maintain its position - so nothing new here, other than it being insufficiently well hidden and demonstrably reaching higher up the chain of command in this case. I think this is likely more disturbing and perhaps surprising to Americans than others.

What's new and disturbing, to non-Americans, is the spectacle of the president launching a war against the better advice of virtually the rest of the world, based on exceptionally unclear evidence of future supposed wrongdoing at best, and against the desires of the majority (that's the perception, a majority) of American citizens.

The lost reputation involves:
- the American political system placing in power the son of a previous leader (an exceptionally anti-democratic occurance in a country of a third of a billion people creating an impression of systemic unfairness, non-democracy)
- the American politcal system of supposed checks and balances failing to prevent the Iraq war when so few informed Americans thought it remotely justifiable or even necessary
- the rather ugly display of Mr Bushs' and others' attitude about the value of the rest of the worlds thoughts and opinions upon their almost universal failure to shut up and fall into line after 911 as typified by such idiotic juvenile embarassments such as '"yer either fer us or 'agin us" and "freedom fries"

Are some of these things America's own business like who gets elected, sure. Are some of them just goofy like freedom fries, yes. But they also have a lot to do with international reputation and world leadership.
posted by scheptech at 1:39 PM on July 7, 2006

Addington in recent years, believes that they are still fighting Watergate. ¡°They¡¯re focussed on restoring the Nixon Presidency,¡±

Addington felt strongly that America ¡°should have stayed and won the Vietnam War, despite the fact that we were losing.¡±

This explains a lot.
posted by anticlock at 1:41 PM on July 7, 2006

I think regular folk around the world assume torture of some sort, and of whatever legal status, has always been part of how any power helps maintain its position - so nothing new here,

speaking as a representative of "regular folk" i call BS. this is simply not a true statement. most regular folk don't believe this. period. where would you even get such an idea?
posted by saulgoodman at 1:43 PM on July 7, 2006

would you even get such an idea?

From history. Not saying torture has always been an accepted official part of the program for every society but it has for some and has existed at some level in every society since forever. What about confinement to stocks, whipping, and or dunking witches in New England back in the day for example, that was torture by my definition. Common, unfortunately.

Again, that it should occur in recent times as part of any officially sanctioned American action is exceptionally bad news but probably more distasteful and surprising to Americans than anyone else. Relatively speaking, and to outsiders, other things such as Americas apparent willingness to engage in unilateral unjustified pre-emptive war loom much larger.
posted by scheptech at 2:06 PM on July 7, 2006

but probably more distasteful and surprising to Americans than anyone else

if you're right, then it's really a shame, but you may have a point.
posted by saulgoodman at 2:19 PM on July 7, 2006

So, having read the article we can all be proud that we're informed. When does Joe Sixpack get it?
posted by ahimsakid at 2:21 PM on July 7, 2006

Oh, Mr. Sixpack's been getting his all along.

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them.
- F. Douglas
posted by jungturk at 2:37 PM on July 7, 2006

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them.
- F. Douglas

Or to paraphrase: "Bitch had it coming, walking around dressed like that after sundown."
posted by saulgoodman at 3:58 PM on July 7, 2006

Andrew Greeley: 'Cheney really wants U.S. dictator'--...The White House, inspired by Vice President Dick Cheney, has argued that in time of great danger, the president has unlimited powers as commander in chief. If he cites "national security" he can do whatever he wants -- ignore Congress, disobey laws, disregard the courts, override the Constitution's Bill of Rights -- without being subject to any review. Separation of powers no longer exists. The president need not consult Congress or the courts. Moreover the rights of the commander in chief to act as a military dictator lasts as long as the national emergency persists, indefinitely that is and permanently.
...
Richard Cheney is a vile, indeed evil, influence in American political life. He is a very dangerous person who would if he could destroy American freedom about which he and his mentor prate hypocritically. His long years in Washington have caused him to lose faith in the legislative and judicial processes of the government. The country, he believes, requires a much stronger executive. Such concentrated power would have been necessary even if the World Trade Center attack had not occurred. He uses the fear of terrorists as a pretext to advance his agenda of an all powerful president, a military dictator. So long, of course, as he is a Republican.
posted by amberglow at 4:22 PM on July 7, 2006

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them.
- F. Douglas

Or to paraphrase: "Bitch had it coming, walking around dressed like that after sundown."

Your paraphrase has befuddled me. How is the victim being blamed in the F. Douglas quote?
posted by Aghast. at 4:35 PM on July 7, 2006

From history. Not saying torture has always been an accepted official part of the program for every society but it has for some and has existed at some level in every society since forever.

Well, that's great. But since when do "most people" know anything about history? Most people are going to assume that their governments are right and just and doing the proper thing, even if that wasn't the case with the Holly Roman Empire under Charlemagne or whatever.
posted by delmoi at 4:40 PM on July 7, 2006

Because IMO blaming the powerless for the excesses and abuses of the powerful is one of the oldest rationalizations for tyranny going. Especially when the powerful control the largest, best-funded military in the world.
posted by saulgoodman at 4:41 PM on July 7, 2006

Your paraphrase has befuddled me. How is the victim being blamed in the F. Douglas quote?

I guess because he's saying that people are responsible for the ills that befall them because they don't complain enough, or something, but that really misses the point.
posted by delmoi at 4:42 PM on July 7, 2006

aghast.: on rereading i think you and delmoi are at least partly right, that i missed f. douglas' point. at the same time, i think that on the part of those in power there could be a real temptation to twist this kind of sentiment to mean something akin to "you get the government you deserve," or in other words, "sure i screwed 'em, but they had it coming for not noticing they were being screwed," which basically amounts to blaming the victim. basically, the kind of thinking con-men use to dehumanize their marks so they don't feel as guilty (completely glossing over the fact that anyone--even them--can fall victim to a skillfully-enough executed scam).
posted by saulgoodman at 4:48 PM on July 7, 2006

(I'm sorry)

scheptech:

I don't know. Mr. Haughey just told me to come in here and say that there was trouble in the government, that's all - I didn't expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition.

[JARRING CHORD]

[The door flies open and chimaera enters, flanked by two junior cardinals. longbaugh has goggles pushed over his forehead. clevershark is just clevershark]

chimaera:

NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Our chief weapon is unilateralism...unilateralism and pre-emptive war...pre-emptive war and unilateralism. Our two weapons are unilateralism and pre-emptive war...and torture. Our three weapons are unilateralism, pre-emptive war, and torture...and an almost fanatically explicit public approval of torture! Our four...no. Amongst our weapons...amongst our weaponry are such elements as pre-emptive war, unilateralism...I'll come in again.

posted by scrump at 5:21 PM on July 7, 2006

So, having read the article we can all be proud that we're informed. When does Joe Sixpack get it?

Though this article focuses predominantly (and exhaustively, I might add -- great post saulgoodman!) on David Addington, the general issue of the office of the VP's role in all of this is pretty well outlined in Frontline's documentary, "The Dark Side". It's quite informative, and has the added benefit of pretty moving pictures for Joe Sixpack to digest.
posted by Brak at 6:30 PM on July 7, 2006

Cheney and company are sick fucks.
posted by UseyurBrain at 7:20 PM on July 7, 2006

Thank you, excellent and well written article.
posted by blue shadows at 11:30 PM on July 7, 2006

Crowning Our Napoleon in Rags
posted by homunculus at 12:22 PM on July 11, 2006