I'm at the point in my life where I feel genuinely sorry for people who don't have the ability to have significant time alone. Like I have had to physically clamp my mouth shut to restrain giving my sympathy in conversations with coworkers, etc, when they happily recount their weekends/vacations/leisure time and it just sounds like an endless, relentless tide of people partners children energy need need need because I recognize that in normal society, my take is the one that sounds unhinged. I dunno. I love being alone.

How are you ever supposed to figure out who you are if there's always somebody with you?
posted by phunniemee at 2:41 PM on September 14 [53 favorites]

being alone for me is okay, for the most part. But, there are times, I wish i wasn't so lonely.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 2:54 PM on September 14 [14 favorites]

I¡¯m fine by myself. When I¡¯m with another in an intimate relationship, though, I¡¯m some other person (as are they, hopefully). It would be nice to be that other person more often.
posted by infinitewindow at 3:25 PM on September 14 [2 favorites]

I like being by myself (+ cats to keep time). Since COVID started, I am enough for me, plus some online events. I go to a movie with a friend occasionally. I agree that , if you can¡¯t be alone, who are you? And you¡¯re only bored if you¡¯re boring.
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:01 PM on September 14 [10 favorites]

How are you ever supposed to figure out who you are if there's always somebody with you?

Here's an anecdote some might find amusing. A number of years ago I walked by a colleague's office, where she was relating to another colleague about a cruise she just took. She was saying things like for $60 they'd give you a massage, for $80 a mud treatment. And on and on ...

I stopped and stood there for a moment, and when she was done I said "How much do you have to pay them to leave you alone?"

I don't think she got it.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 4:35 PM on September 14 [7 favorites]

Loneliness represents the pain of being alone while solitude expresses the glory of being alone.

Not my words, but ones I ran across a while back that actually somewhat stuck with me.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 4:36 PM on September 14 [18 favorites]

And you¡¯re only bored if you¡¯re boring

I definitely disagree with this! If you're too tired to read a book or watch a film/TV but not able to sleep;

OR if you've read all the books you can get hold of that sound appealing, and watched all of the films/TV you can get hold of that sound appealing

you can be bored without being a boring person!

(This is most often the case for those of us who are chronically ill/disabled, who often have to manage to entertain ourselves while lying down in bed for 40 hours or more each week, because we're too sick to be vertical...)
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 4:40 PM on September 14 [23 favorites]

I can't recall ever being lonely and desiring the company of others. Yet, my wife and I have been together almost half a century. Since retirement we sit in the same room, both on our laptops and chatter back and forth all day long. Lots of jokes and bad puns. And our interests are wildly different. Perhaps I'm just wary of strangers and don't want to make the effort. Whatever...
posted by jim in austin at 4:46 PM on September 14 [12 favorites]

I'm ok alone, but mostly because empirically, I'm a bad partner. but, as far as self-knowledge, it's sure deep and fast when you're always bumping up against another human.

on preview...
it's sure deep and fast when you're always bumping up against another human.

heh.
posted by j_curiouser at 4:50 PM on September 14 [6 favorites]

(This is most often the case for those of us who are chronically ill/disabled, who often have to manage to entertain ourselves while lying down in bed for 40 hours or more each week, because we're too sick to be vertical...)

In my case, I came to this position during multiple week-long stays in hospitals where my vision was too messed up to read and the TV was actually worse than being bored. Without my ability to tell myself stories, my goose would have been cooked. Your mileage may vary, of course. I can only speak for myself.
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:01 PM on September 14 [5 favorites]

if you can¡¯t be alone, who are you?

j¡¯ai dit souvent que tout le malheur des hommes vient d¡¯une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos dans une chambre [philosophy.stackexchange]
posted by HearHere at 5:07 PM on September 14 [3 favorites]

I have become surprisingly monk-like over the last 10 years or so; occasionally that concerns me a bit, but not a lot. Mostly I'm happy with my own company and my hobbies (whether that changes as I get older remains to be seen), and I have friends I get together with every couple months which is almost often enough to be satisfying. Now and then though, just once in a while, I do get a bit lonely.
posted by Greg_Ace at 5:21 PM on September 14 [3 favorites]

I really only feel half alive if there isn¡¯t someone I see on a regular basis that I can love.
posted by jamjam at 5:42 PM on September 14 [6 favorites]

How are you ever supposed to figure out who you are if there's always somebody with you?

My experience is that there's a kind of merging of selves with a partner, romantic or non-romantic. It's like having 4 hands and 2 brains, you are more complex, but with far more potential.
posted by xdvesper at 5:55 PM on September 14 [8 favorites]

jim in austin: "I can't recall ever being lonely and desiring the company of others. Yet, my wife and I have been together almost half a century. Since retirement we sit in the same room, both on our laptops and chatter back and forth all day long. Lots of jokes and bad puns. And our interests are wildly different. Perhaps I'm just wary of strangers and don't want to make the effort. Whatever..."

I don't know you jim in austin. I'm going to assume you've posted this in good faith. But this is one of those comments that really feels like you're not reading the room. The discussion is about being alone, living alone, living without romantic love, and here you jump in saying loneliness isn't a problem for you (which is great) and that you've had 50 years of being partnered and in a romantic relationship. Well, duh. You're not alone. You're not living alone. You're not living outside of a romantic partnership. I don't know what you thought your comment adds to the discussion.
posted by sardonyx at 6:22 PM on September 14 [12 favorites]

Solitude isn¡¯t what I wanted, but it¡¯s what I got. I need my space and that created its own problems. But with my friendships, I maybe have 80% of what I sought, and that¡¯s good enough not to slit my wrists.

I¡¯m doing OK.
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:24 PM on September 14 [7 favorites]

The Wim Wenders film Perfect Days has been rapturously reviewed by my friends. I loved it too. The protagonist revels in his monk-like life, but his relationships with other people are central to the narrative, because, of course, it's cinema. If you can find fullness in your life alone, perhaps, your influence on others will be sublime.
posted by kozad at 7:25 PM on September 14 [1 favorite]

I treasure my solitude. I'd rather be alone than with other people. The only company I need are my cats.
posted by mike3k at 7:26 PM on September 14 [3 favorites]

"Frankly, the message of rom-coms, love songs and Jane Austen novels" ¨C that we need a partner to be fulfilled ¨C "isn't backed by data,"

how. dare. he. Jane Austen never said that.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 7:39 PM on September 14 [16 favorites]

I spent my childhood stunningly alone¡ªhomeschooled (for some definition of the word schooled), homebound from chronic illness, while both my parents worked and my brothers went to public school. I had no concept of how lonely I was until I went to college.

The distinction the article makes regarding solitude being a choice is important to me. Being shut up alone in my childhood home made such an indelible mark on my psyche. I would never choose it again and get anxious when I¡¯m alone too long, even though I¡¯m not an extrovert! I don¡¯t need to be interacting with people constantly, just need someone in sight or hearing every hour or so.

I can see how some people would choose solitude, and as a child forced into it I thought that I wasn¡¯t a people person and liked being alone. Turns out I didn¡¯t know who I was until I had the opportunity to be around people. The choice matters.
posted by brook horse at 8:02 PM on September 14 [19 favorites]

I¡¯m married, but I definitely need a hefty dose of solitude - preferably every day. I married late in life and we decided we would have separate bedrooms, which is really good in helping to meet my need for alone time. I love spending time with my wife, my family, and so forth: but I would lose my mind if I didn¡¯t have time on my own. (And with my cats.)

I think this has a lot to do with the fact that I was an only child¡­ until I was about eight. I got used to entertaining myself, reading for pleasure, having a quiet room and not needing to entertain someone else or accommodate them.
posted by jzb at 8:56 PM on September 14 [7 favorites]

The distinction between loneliness and solitude is an important one

as I've been trying to explain to at least one family member for over thirty years.
posted by philip-random at 9:30 PM on September 14 [4 favorites]

I think that the introvert/extrovert binary is, like pretty much all binaries, wildly overrated, but as far as it goes, I'm significantly more extroverted than introverted. Furthermore, I dearly love my partner, who is the only person I've ever met that I can imagine having married. That said, I cherish the times they are away visiting family or etc. To have a few days to myself is glorious.

The times I've lived alone in my own apartment have generally been wonderful. It's a very empowering thing to just be. You find out a bit about yourself I think. I recommend it to all as something they should experience at least once in life.
posted by Smedly, Butlerian jihadi at 10:33 PM on September 14 [3 favorites]

To me it's a balancing act that is always ongoing. If I spend too much time around people I get mentally and emotionally exhausted. Even if I like them! I like--indeed love--my wife and kids, but if I spent every waking moment with them I might go batty. I have to recharge my batteries in a way that can only be done by being--and doing things--alone.

On a daily basis, it doesn't take much. I'm the earliest riser every day, so waking up first, getting my coffee, checking the news...that is MyTime and it is valuable.

On the other hand, too much time alone also gets me down. With my current job I find myself with large chunks of time by myself. Which is good for getting work done but over time I need to charge my social batteries.

So I am endlessly balancing my MeTime battery and my social battery. It's hard to predict just how long either will last. I envy those that can go forever one or the other way.
posted by zardoz at 12:32 AM on September 15 [6 favorites]

As someone who's a classic drained-by-social-interaction introvert, in an introvert-introvert marriage, introversion doesn't really conflict with marriage at all. You just let the other person have their own space, and you interact in a low-key way anyway. It's not like every day is a costumed line-dancing barbecue or whatever extroverts like doing.

Even our wedding had exactly three guests: we did a civil ceremony, went to a restaurant, had a good time, then bye. Sometime later we told our families. It's your marriage, you can do it how you want.

That's not to say you need to be married, I was happy when I was single too. But for me social interaction is a bit like running a 10k. I like it, it's fun and stimulating for a while. But after a time I need to stop and have a rest. After that point it's deeply unpleasant if someone is trying to force you to keep going when you're tired.

You just need some way of getting the right amount of social interaction for you in your life, and there are many different ways to do that.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 12:48 AM on September 15 [3 favorites]

the introvert/extrovert binary is, like pretty much all binaries, wildly overrated

[medium:] An Ambivert is someone whose overall behavior is between introversion or extroversion.

An Omnivert is someone who can be either different at times
posted by HearHere at 1:16 AM on September 15 [2 favorites]

Otroverts
posted by Phanx at 2:07 AM on September 15 [5 favorites]

Another only child reporting (so was my very fey mother, and her Diddakoi/G* word banned on mefi father - the only grandparent I've known). I have tried to group, meet, join, congregate, lead, follow, team, and finally gave all that up - it's just exhausting and of no value. I have no way of understanding what a sibling would be like, someone asked me that once and I said I supposed it would be useful - apparently that's the wrong answer!

Now I work alone - but enjoy the people aspects of helping people make good decisions about land, occasionally being very cunning with land decisions, and maintaining my people network. I'm married and that is enough social for me - otherwise very non-social. I've been to about two parties in my life.

Paradoxically I've only felt lonely since being married; when I was single I was always alone but didn¡¯t depend on / have anyone depend on me, or maybe it's the continual presence of another as sometimes when I'm alone I am lonely.

* I know there's a difference between the two words, I just don't know my origins, but I identify strongly with the G word.
posted by unearthed at 2:29 AM on September 15 [2 favorites]

This is something that I struggle with as an autistic person.
I love being alone, but I do love being with my close friends and with my husband as well, even when being with them can be really frustrating and stressful. Being hyper vigilant about the (very good) possibility that I'm missing social cues and saying inappropriate things makes social interaction with people I like stressful and exhausting.
In many ways, being alone is easier, but I'm also likely to fall into bad habits - both for myself, because I can be in a slough of despond without it affecting anyone so why should I look after myself? And for others, because my skills at being with people deteriorate and I become even more sensitive to the stress of it all.

I used to think I have social anxiety, but when I looked at the traits on the DSM5 I have only one of those - exaggerated idea of other's negative opinion of me. I'm not shy AT ALL. I love speaking to strangers, as long as it's a scripted interaction with a definite end (for example, I know what I'm supposed to say to a cashier, or how to talk to students in a lecture). I don't have a fear of public speaking. But I loathe unscripted interactions, especially with people I know. For example, if I see a friend unexpectedly in the supermarket, I usually hide from them because 1)what am I supposed to talk about? 2) how do I know when to end this interaction?

Also a common experience for autistic people: I have a very malleable sense of myself. I don't feel like I'm a separate person and when I'm with people who don't share my world view, I feel like I'm being over-written by them and lose my sense of self. The way I experience things, I don't think I'm an individual at all, I think I'm part of a network, my "self" only exists as part of everyone else around me.

I'm disappointed to see quite a few really judgmental statements in this thread. I find it works better to think of people as being as exotic and different from one another as different species of animal. Some of us are prickly hedgehogs, some of us are floofy cats, or placid bears, or volatile eels, or patient spiders. We're all different and need different things.
posted by Zumbador at 3:37 AM on September 15 [25 favorites]

More (if not quite enough) on Herr Schreiber.
posted by BWA at 4:33 AM on September 15 [1 favorite]

5_13_23_42_69_666: ""Frankly, the message of rom-coms, love songs and Jane Austen novels" ¨C that we need a partner to be fulfilled ¨C "isn't backed by data,"

how. dare. he. Jane Austen never said that."

Yeah, this is really wrong. Austen's books are endlessly about the pitfalls and dangers of marriages (and pregnancies). I think all of her books have at least one mother who has died of something unspecified, which contemporaries would have assumed meant she died of complications of childbirth. Charlotte Lucas is prominent in the most romantic of her books as a counter-example to blissful love (Darcy is her nicest male protagonist, since all his nastiness is confined to the first half of the book and he is demonstrated to have improved). Many of her male protagonists do some pretty fucked-up stuff that is elided from the movie versions, like in Sense & Sensibility where Edward Ferrars completely destroys a pair of scissors belonging to the heroine because he has to relieve his feelings by wrecking something - in the movies you think Hugh Grant will be a delightful husband but in the book, if you're paying attention, you have to wonder.
posted by joannemerriam at 4:42 AM on September 15 [8 favorites]

As a young person, all the cultural propaganda around romantic relationships led me to a narrow understanding of ¡°personal growth¡±, a poor view of myself and some deeply regrettable life choices.
posted by brachiopod at 5:31 AM on September 15 [4 favorites]

Zumbador: "I don't feel like I'm a separate person and when I'm with people who don't share my world view, I feel like I'm being over-written by them and lose my sense of self. The way I experience things, I don't think I'm an individual at all, I think I'm part of a network, my "self" only exists as part of everyone else around me."

I'm so glad you said this. I'm not autistic (probably) and don't feel this sense of being overwritten as strongly as you describe, but I am somewhat malleable. I believe that at least for most of us, our sense of self is largely socially mediated. I'm perfectly fine being alone but even alone, my sense of who I am relates in part to who I am to others, if I think about it. I'm not convinced that individuals really completely exist, I think we have some members-of-a-hive-like attributes and exist mostly in cooperation with each other in some way or another. Under this rubric part of the joy of solitude would be to escape that matrix of obligations, roles, rules, etc and part of the sadness of loneliness would be missing the cohesion that matrix gives us.
posted by joannemerriam at 5:44 AM on September 15 [9 favorites]

(+ cats to keep time)

Yep, "alone with cats" is really something.
posted by ovvl at 6:05 AM on September 15 [6 favorites]

I don't know if people want to strap in for my level of weirdness, but since around my mid-20s, I have no interior solitude really. My head is incredibly busy with diverse perspectives and voices (who still share common things, I am so happy I can point at Severance (at least up to S2 E2 where I'm at) as a great portrayal of that part, being recognizably the same while also recognizably different) and so I don't think I experience loneliness much ever at all in terms of not being able to have conversations or being introduced to activities and media I wouldn't choose to myself.

How are you ever supposed to figure out who you are if there's always somebody with you?

Yeah, exactly. I do not, inside myself, have that answer. I mean I know who I am vs. others but I don't think it's coherent with my/our outside presentation, and I even have to ask myself on an almost hourly basis: I feel a bit upset, is this my upset? Oh no, it's someone else's upset because they don't like this part of my job even though I like this part of my job, so I can reassure them we've only got one more presentation this week and then get on with my day knowing that if there's any upset, I don't have to tune in to see what it's telling me specifically.

That said, I have felt incredibly lonely to the point of needing support for it, inside my marriage, after my daughter died and my husband (who is introverted but also was grieving and depressed) withdrew both physically and emotionally. It was one of the most painful periods of my life and made me really commit better to friendships and light social connections as something to nurture and grow.

Because my head is so busy, I guess I'd associated boredom with loneliness, like if you're not bored you're not lonely, or purely kind of mental stuff like chatting with friends online.

But I learned there is a kind of - well I feel it in my bones, a palpable, sensory loneliness of being unseen or feeling like you are being kept out in some way. It was so, so physical for me, not just missing touch but feeling like there was a partition between me and the rest of the world. Maybe some of that was also grief...but that is what I think of when I hear about the loneliness epidemic.

I think we all need to know where we are in the tribe, and even if we're in the tribe in solitude or whatever, there's a real anxiety that comes from feeling like there's no tribe, or that we've been cast out of the tribe, or our tribe suddenly disappeared. And at the same time, we are individuals, so we need to feel the space between us and other people and take time for our own thoughts.

But, I dunno. This is one of those things where I'm fascinated to hear about others' because my own interior experience is so deviated from the norm.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:50 AM on September 15 [9 favorites]

sardonyx

Perhaps. But if my (future) wife had not run me to-ground and hog-tied me, it is likely I would now be a septuagenarian confirmed bachelor. She remains the only actual friend I have had in my life and I didn't lift a finger to make it happen. She was apparently very focused. She can also confirm I am neither a glad-hander nor a social butterfly. Such things do happen...
posted by jim in austin at 7:36 AM on September 15 [6 favorites]

I like alone time. But a lot of the time when I'm with loved ones, I romanticize "alone time" in an unhealthy way. I'm an anxious person and have hard time relaxing and enjoying myself, especially since quitting the booze (see my username... 7 years).

Sometimes I find myself alone (finally!) and then get anxious and in need of my wife or someone else. It's not healthy, but I'm working through it and it's more healthy than obsessing on alcohol 24/7. Wish I had time & money for therapy. Mostly I'm good, not in a terrible state. I never get depressed like I can't get out of bed, etc.

The illness of depression gets all the headlines and word-counts, but anxiety is real. It hurts in a different way I suppose. Alcohol is a GREAT short term cure, but I can't do that anymore, nor do I have the urge to do so. Living sober is life in easy mode, comparatively.
posted by SoberHighland at 7:50 AM on September 15 [4 favorites]

jim in austin: "sardonyx

Perhaps. But if my (future) wife had not run me to-ground and hog-tied me, it is likely I would now be a septuagenarian confirmed bachelor. She remains the only actual friend I have had in my life and I didn't lift a finger to make it happen. She was apparently very focused. She can also confirm I am neither a glad-hander nor a social butterfly. Such things do happen..."


Again, that's just peachy for you. You didn't lift a finger and everything came up roses for you! Have you given an iota's amount of thought for the people who aren't as lucky as you? I'm sure you've read all kinds of posts on here about people who are struggling to find love or companionship or even friendships and who are out there beating every bush they can to find it. But who cares? You've had a great life. You found your person, so why not come into a thread and rub salt into other people's wounds?

But, you say, if this one person hadn't chased you down, you likely wouldn't have found anybody else. Except you don't know that. You can't say what would or wouldn't have happened. You can't say you wouldn't have become lonely without any friends or close companions. All you can know is that this particular issue that is under discussion hasn't been a problem for you because of the circumstances of your life. Your hypothetical possibilities aren't the same as the realities that people struggle with on a daily basis.
posted by sardonyx at 8:16 AM on September 15 [3 favorites]

METAFILTER: every day is a costumed line-dancing barbecue or whatever extroverts like doing
posted by philip-random at 8:44 AM on September 15 [12 favorites]

I was married for over two decades, and I didn't realize until after my divorce that I had never felt relaxed in my home, or seen, or connected. Because there was always someone else there, I mistook being Not Alone for being Not Lonely. At first it was hard being truly alone; but after I realized that the only thing I had lost in the divorce was the idea that I wasn't lonely, I started to really treasure being alone, unobserved. But I was actually lonely too; I tried to fill that hole by dating, but finally figured out that what I really needed was friends.

That was a few years ago, and I still love love love my alone time. I have a wonderful circle of friends and have plans with at least 3 or 4 of them every week; each one of them is so different and we have different things in common, different things we talk about. My theater friend and I talk about trauma; my book friend and I talk about parenting; my astrology friend and I talk about dating and friendship; my art friend and I talk about spirituality; my work bestie and I talk about food and culture; my best friend and I talk about every damn thing.

I have a boyfriend now, too, and on our first date I told him that I will never live with a romantic partner again. That was a while ago, and maybe eventually I'll make an exception for him, but for now, I like to miss him. I like being on my own in the world, and having the knowledge that I am held by another person, but loosely. It's spacious, and lovely, and sustainable.

Still, even though I am surrounded by so many people who love me, I sometimes feel lonely, or bored, or unloved. Left to my own devices, I'll scroll my phone all night and eat junk food. I know I'm not the only one. The people in my life bring out the best version of me, which is not the most comfortable version sometimes, not the easiest version, but being connected to other people sometimes feels like the thing that saves me from me, you know? Hard to admit, but it's true. But also, sometimes I like eating the whole pint of ice cream and watching too many TikToks in a row. Not everything has to be meaningful or highbrow or good for you. I think if I didn't have my people, though, I would really struggle. My alone time is wonderful and valuable and part of that is that it ends.
posted by biblioPHL at 8:53 AM on September 15 [6 favorites]

the introvert/extrovert binary is, like pretty much all binaries, wildly overrated

Agreed. I am single. I live alone. I work from home. I write for a living, which is mostly solitary. I spend most of most days alone and most days out of most weeks alone. This is fine with me. On the other hand, I'm pretty social I love meeting new people/throwing parties/going to parties/ going to shows/talking to people/being active in community& family etc.

I think there is a huge difference between being alone and being isolated. I like to be alone but I also like feeling connected.
posted by Thivaia 2.0 at 10:02 AM on September 15 [4 favorites]

Aside from family, Shepherd is the only partner I've ever lived with. I have lived alone most of my adult life and honestly, I have never minded it. I do appreciate having the kind of partnership where we both crave our own solitude and give it to each other when we want it. I never wanted to live with room mates or anyone I was seeing, mostly because I just wanted to have my own space so badly. Was I lonely? Sure, but not enough to want other people in my private spaces.
posted by Kitteh at 10:05 AM on September 15 [3 favorites]

sardonyx:

You seem to continue to conflate lonely with solitary. I have never been lonely, the yearning for others. And I have always been comfortable with solitary, the lack of a need for others. But then events intervened. Such is life...
posted by jim in austin at 10:11 AM on September 15 [2 favorites]

Jim In Austin - I suspect that the thing that set sardonyx off is that instead of leading with your more recent comment, you gushed about how companionable things were with your wife. And while you are correct that there is indeed a difference between being lonely and being solitary, for many people - including sardonyx, I assume, and including myself - we do end up solitary despite all our best efforts, whether we like it or not, and have to learn to like it. So while it's sincerely wonderful for you (and what you said about your state didn't bother me in the slightest), it could indeed rub someone the wrong way if they're at a bitter point about their single state.

Also - and this may bring things closer to TFA - something that tends to chafe at single people is the fact that so many other dang parts of society push the narrative that "yay happy marriages and families is the only way to True Happiness". Engaged couples and newlyweds get showered with gifts to help set up their first homes, but single people don't get that same support. Travel package tours often give you a surcharge if you're signing up as a lone person rather than a couple, and hotels often do the same. There are a whole damn lot of rom-coms, Hallmark Christmas specials, books, and other such entertainment that pushes the narrative that couplehood is the One True Goal. The fact that there's been a flurry of "hey, actually, being single is just fine" self-help books might be a bit of a backlash against this, reflecting the fact that a whole lot of us wish that the events that intervened in your life haven't intervened in ours, even though many of us may have wanted it to - and that it's bad enough to be missing out on that, without the rest of society somehow telling us it's our fault.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:32 AM on September 15 [10 favorites]

los pantalones del muerte: "Loneliness represents the pain of being alone while solitude expresses the glory of being alone.

Not my words, but ones I ran across a while back that actually somewhat stuck with me."

I dunno, for me, the times I've felt loneliest have typically involved big groups where I didn't really know anybody, or (even worse) small groups of people where I felt like an extremely unnecessary fifth wheel. When it's just me? Hardly ever feel lonely at all. I think loneliness has a lot less to do with the amount of social interaction than the quality of it.
posted by mstokes650 at 10:47 AM on September 15 [5 favorites]

Loneliness represents the pain of being alone while solitude expresses the glory of being alone.

And by extension, loneliness represents the tragedy of being alone, even when with someone you love(d) - while solitude expresses the euphoria of being alone with someone you love.
posted by thecincinnatikid at 10:56 AM on September 15 [1 favorite]

jim in austin: "sardonyx:

You seem to continue to conflate lonely with solitary. I have never been lonely, the yearning for others. And I have always been comfortable with solitary, the lack of a need for others. But then events intervened. Such is life..."

I understand completely the difference between solitude and loneliness. The catch is that you don't seem to. You've lived half-a-century with a person. You've haven't experienced singledom outside of your twenties. You haven't been forced to figure out if you could survive and thrive on your own for any real length of time. You haven't lived a life of solitude. You just make assumptions that because you don't have any friends of your own that you'd be fine on your own and not get lonely. You don't seem to realize that a lot of married men, especially older, married men, benefit immensely not just from being partnered, but from the social circles and social life their partners create for them--again, without the men lifting a finger to nurture those relationships.

Everything you have posted in this thread feels so much like mansplaining that it's irritating me. You assuming that your lived experience is the de facto lived experience. You've come into a space where people are talking about their struggles and you're essentially bragging that you've had no struggles (in that particular realm).

Normally, I don't care to get involved in these kinds of arguments or call out people but I'm so tired of hearing the stories of friends who are struggling to find some kind of partner--my heart breaks for them. It hurts me to read posts by MeFites (including people I've come to see as friends even though we've never met) who are having to cope with loneliness and living alone because they haven't magically found themselves in a real, caring relationship yet--let alone one that has lasted for 50 years.

And I will say that all the people I have in mind are strong and resilient (and frankly wonderfula and caring human beings) and able to cope with being on their own. As EmpressCallipygos said, it's something that even if it didn't come naturally to them, they've had to learn and learn over the course of 20 or 30 or 40 or even 50 years. But that doesn't mean it was easy. That doesn't mean they haven't struggled or haven't been lonely. And sure every one of them has experienced the joys that come with solitude, but they've also suffered from being alone--something that you, jim, haven't had to worry about in five decades.
posted by sardonyx at 10:57 AM on September 15 [8 favorites]

About 15 years ago I was introduced to Tanya Davis's "How to be Alone" in this youtube video by Andrea Dorfman. We also talked about their beautiful follow-up collaboration "How to be at home" in response to the pandemic.
posted by funkiwan at 10:58 AM on September 15 [3 favorites]

This thread has certainly helped me understand why some people remain alone.
posted by mittens at 11:12 AM on September 15 [14 favorites]

As a youngish widower, it¡¯s amazing how quickly things can go from one extreme to the other. One week it¡¯s all social events and then it¡¯s like someone snapped their fingers.

Oh, people don¡¯t leave you alone, at first. Constant texting ¡°how are you doing?¡± (How do you think I¡¯m doing? My husband died.) Six months later and they move on. Your social life shrinks. You¡¯re a reminder, and not a pleasant one.

That said, I generally enjoy my solitude, but the loneliness is not a welcome guest.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 12:46 PM on September 15 [15 favorites]

I stopped and stood there for a moment, and when she was done I said "How much do you have to pay them to leave you alone?"

I don't think she got it.

You couldn't afford it (also eponysterical)
posted by The Ardship of Cambry at 2:21 PM on September 15 [2 favorites]

Austen's books are endlessly about the pitfalls and dangers of marriages (and pregnancies)

yea! and also, the women in her books aren't desperate to find partners because they crave companionship - it's because without being able to earn their own living they would be destitute. Austen was able to make some serious social commentary into stories that are also a delight to read. So hearing the author of that quote get her message so wrong... this starts playing in my head
Otto (smugly): Apes don't read Philosophy
Wanda: Yes they do Otto, they just don't understand it
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 2:22 PM on September 15 [6 favorites]

I need an absolute minimum of half my waking hours to myself. Preferably more,?90% is good. I typically go days without direct human contact, beyond the checkout operator at the local supermarket, and more so as I get older. I find people draining, however enjoyable their company and important they are to me.

I rarely feel lonely when alone, but often do when in a group, when I spend half my time thinking I don't want to be here, and looking forward to getting back home. (Like to draw a distinction between being in a group where everybody knows each other and is interacting, and being anonymous in a crowd, which is much less of a problem.)

I am not anti-social but more like micro-social. Enjoyable social interactions for me usually consist of just one or two others, for a few minutes to a couple of hours, and I can be very chatty & lively then and have a good old time, and I also get on well with younger children (i.e. pre-hormones). I don't have any issue with expressing emotion, beyond the standard Anglo male cultural reticence about it.

Can't ever remember it being otherwise for me.

I have one parent who is like that, and one who is the complete opposite. Guess which one I get on with.

Weirdly, one of my oldest and dearest friends for over 40 years, now sadly deceased and leaving a large hole in my and many others' lives, was a highly social person. But we hit it off big time, with similar senses of humour, and always with plenty to say to each other over long laughter-soaked lunches. Go figure.

Otroverts
posted by Phanx

That's me.
posted by Pouteria at 6:12 PM on September 16 [3 favorites]

I'm around people a lot, alot

People keep telling me I should take a break, am I sleeping, am I okay. It's people and their needs

Hell is other people's bathrooms. I don't want to poop in your bathroom, I want my bathroom
posted by Didymus at 6:26 PM on September 16 [3 favorites]

Around when I turned thirty for about two years I had a girlfriend a couple years older than me who had never learned to be alone, she had always lived at home and then in various relationships, always, all the time, never alone. So she could NOT handle my (I think quite acceptable) needs for solitude AT ALL. She took it very bad, played the victim, etc. But I think she did learn something in the end, after we broke up (and she'd had some therapy) she asked me for forgiveness for trampling over my very real needs in the way she did in the relationship.

So yes: I love solitude, perhaps more than most people, but what I'm very sure of is that we really should all strive to be comfortable on our own. Please don't be the person who overrides other people's need for time alone.
posted by fridgebuzz at 2:29 AM on September 17 [1 favorite]

thanx phanx, just for fun I did the test and scored 226, 17 higher than Jessie Mulligan of Radio NZ who interviewed Kaminski back in July.

I found several questions confusing and not nuanced enough to answer usefully, esp. a group question concerning understanding group dynamics - which I do very well - but there was no way to say that. I don't know what use it is though - the far fringes of INTJ works well for me when I want to put my self in a box.
posted by unearthed at 3:01 AM on September 17

I just sat out in the evening golden hour and had a moment. The golden hour being the hour before dawn and after sunset. Just now there were no clouds and the sky was especially aglow. I was wondering if it is from smoke from that big fire on the peninsula.

And tben I got buzzed by our hummingbird. Their hum is actually a flutter, like a card shuffle or when someone close pinned one playing card on their bike's back fork to flap in the spokes of the back wheel. Only a whisper of a whisper. He just zipped by about four inches off my right ear at an upward angle in a fraction of a second. It was so cool.

That hummingbird and I are personal acquaintances -- he is my closest not mention only wildlife friend. It is such a delight. And something very unlikely to happen i
were anyone else present. Such fractional moments are among the most precious of our lives. Pfft! like shooting stars. And all we have to do is be awake for them.
posted by y2karl at 8:51 PM on September 18 [3 favorites]

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