Comments on: Harder Better Faster Further.

Harder Better Faster Further.

loquacious — Sun, 10 May 2009 18:07:38 -0800

Daft Punk revealed in bootleg video at the 1996 Even Further festival.

Though it's impossible to see what gear-manipulating is going on, this is an excellent example of a "live PA" of electronic dance music as opposed to DJing.

By: hellojed

hellojed — Sun, 10 May 2009 18:27:24 -0800

I think I hear a TR-808 in there. Since we're having a 90's Daft Punk post, let me throw in a set they did in 1997.

By: LSK

LSK — Sun, 10 May 2009 18:28:59 -0800

It doesn't really matter if they're seen or not. The reason I (and, I think, many people) don't like artists with hidden identities is that they can't identify with them on the personal level that you can, say, identify with a modern pop artist.

By: hellojed

hellojed — Sun, 10 May 2009 18:41:50 -0800

Oops, that link didn't work, here.

By: The Devil Tesla

The Devil Tesla — Sun, 10 May 2009 18:41:56 -0800

By: fire&wings

fire&wings — Sun, 10 May 2009 18:42:32 -0800

By: mrnutty

mrnutty — Sun, 10 May 2009 18:44:42 -0800

Huh, before this post I just finished watching Daft Bodies and Daft Hands.

By: Adam_S

Adam_S — Sun, 10 May 2009 18:45:06 -0800

On a related note, in case you missed it, Thomas Bangalter of Daft Punk did a helmet-less DJ set a few weeks ago.

By: DU

DU — Sun, 10 May 2009 18:45:39 -0800

By: LSK

LSK — Sun, 10 May 2009 18:46:29 -0800

You have to see someone's head to identify with their music? I don't mean anything about identifying with their music. I mean identifying with someone in a more Britney Spears-ish "Wow, that person makes mistakes - they're not a robot, they're as human as I am."

By: LSK

LSK — Sun, 10 May 2009 18:47:04 -0800

Which isn't to say that I listen to Britney Spears more than necessary.

By: hellojed

hellojed — Sun, 10 May 2009 18:47:16 -0800

I can't identify with 99.99% of modern pop artists anyway. Kanye West? Micheal Jackson? You'll never see Guy Manuel on the cover of "US Weekly" talking about what he did for vacation. Take Micheal Jackson, we know so much about him that we can't help but think about all the baggage associated with his name, to the point where one can no longer enjoy the music because...well...he's a creepy creepster.

By: dydecker

dydecker — Sun, 10 May 2009 18:52:48 -0800

I think it's fair comment that it's difficult to "identify" with the personalities in a modern electronic act such as Daft Punk or Kraftwerk. That's not what the genre is about at all. But listen to enough of the stuff and then stick on a singer songwriter and you get the opposite reaction. "I don't care how you feel, man. Just play."

By: loquacious

loquacious — Sun, 10 May 2009 18:54:52 -0800

The reason I (and, I think, many people) don't like artists with hidden identities is that they can't identify with them on the personal level that you can, say, identify with a modern pop artist. Interestingly this is why I was first attracted to punk rock, and later techno. Back in the early, wilder, more DIY era you were much more likely to find the DJ or live PA artist hunkered down on a table behind a mountain of speakers, dwarfed physically and metaphorically by the crowd and the music with humbleness and humility. It often felt like a semi-religious respect and awe for the music itself the way people took pains not to elevate their egos before the music itself and the collective appreciation of it. I still think the adaptation of arena-style stage and lighting rigs is one of the worst things to happen to electronic dance music. In the earlier years people didn't align themselves to face a stage - they often randomly faced each other, or gravitated towards the speakers themselves, which sometimes were arranged in a surround sound system at multiple corners of a space or warehouse. This noticeably increased person-to-person interaction and interactivity with the environment, leading to more audience participation with art, lights, costumes and more.

By: Burhanistan

Burhanistan — Sun, 10 May 2009 19:38:16 -0800

I prefer analog knob twiddlers. Seriously, those guys make their own "instruments". Don't miss the "twiddlers" link.

By: vicx

vicx — Sun, 10 May 2009 19:47:15 -0800

@loq I agree the small warehouse club art space is special. I remember the randomness of those environments and having access not just to the artist but to other people expressing themselves in the space. And you are right at these parties there doesn't seem to be an orientation towards the artist or stage and it feels totally different. If they wore masks for those shows it probably would be a bit weird. For stadium rock electronica I think the masks and lightshows are needed for the how to move the mob technique. I find the big shows more of a challenge to let go and enjoy, but I'm sure thats a reflection of my personality. And lastly - drugs. Clearly Bangalter is off chops and that guy glowing in the background -well when i was waching this video I wanted to be that guy. He is having a good time.

By: hupp

hupp — Sun, 10 May 2009 19:50:25 -0800

I went to Even Further back in the 2000somethings but had no idea it had this kind of history. Nice find.

By: dydecker

dydecker — Sun, 10 May 2009 19:56:47 -0800

Back in the early, wilder, more DIY era you were much more likely to find the DJ or live PA artist hunkered down on a table behind a mountain of speakers, dwarfed physically and metaphorically by the crowd and the music with humbleness and humility. I do not think it is true that this was more likely in the past. The rise of the superstar DJ was a 90s phenomenon and it has since died down, while live p.a's are now much more common in the clubs than 10 years ago because of improved and more portable technology. Lastly in places such as Germany, the DJ has usually on the same level as the audience - many of the most famous clubs don't have stages.

By: dammitjim

dammitjim — Sun, 10 May 2009 20:12:25 -0800

I love Daft Punk, and, inspired by reading this thread and listening to some of the concert footage, stumbled across the entire film Interstella 5555: The 5tory of the 5ecret 5tar 5ystem on Google Video. I'd never even heard of it, and for those who similarly haven't, it's an hour-long series of videos from Daft Punk's album Discovery, done in epic anime. I just watched the entire thing, and enjoyed it immensely.

By: Kattullus

Kattullus — Sun, 10 May 2009 20:19:50 -0800

I'm just shocked that there are people just standing around. IT'S DANCE MUSIC SO DANCE PEOPLE! Though maybe they were transfixed by the shiny man. That's an acceptable excuse.

By: o0o0o

o0o0o — Sun, 10 May 2009 21:03:36 -0800

I was there and I wish I could say I remembered seeing them. Unfortunately, it was raining much of the time and so the ground was very muddy, making it difficult to walk, let alone dance. The downpour also meant that by the time everyone was leaving the next day (or was it 2 days?), a lot of the cars had started to slide down the side of the winding hill they were all parked on. This was one of the best events I have ever gone to, since everyone I knew at the time went and it pulled in people from all the surrounding states. It is also the only time I've gone camping.

By: ardgedee

ardgedee — Sun, 10 May 2009 21:28:51 -0800

> I still think the adaptation of arena-style stage and lighting rigs is one of the worst things to happen to electronic dance music. That would depend on how much pageant you like in your music performances. Daft Punk's helmets indicate they know what they're doing -- they're making larger-than-life characters and playing off Kraftwerk's man-machine schtick. They're too popular to play house parties, and they're the size of ants in the venues that can contain their fans. So big lights and flashpots give the crowd something to look at. Two guys operating consoles for a couple hours doesn't make for good entertainment so they make the trappings huge instead. To compare to another great dance music performer, King Sunny Ade doesn't sit in a chair and trigger a rhythm track. He brings a huge ensemble that filled the stage, has dancers in costume, and the man himself moves and grooves all over the place. If you wanted to dance, you danced; if you wanted to watch the show, there's a show to watch.

By: thescientificmethhead

thescientificmethhead — Sun, 10 May 2009 21:38:44 -0800

I can only identify with Lady Gaga.

By: Uther Bentrazor

Uther Bentrazor — Mon, 11 May 2009 05:41:57 -0800

There is indeed something to be said for stage show and presence; I'm not huge into the electronica scene, but an unfortunate dearth in live ebm/industrial acts has led to a sad number of "bands", that involve one lone prick bopping behind a laptop for 45 minutes, long and boring enough for me to look at my watch and go "there's probably some really good TV I'm missing about now"

By: koeselitz

koeselitz — Mon, 11 May 2009 08:19:18 -0800

LSK: It doesn't really matter if they're seen or not. The reason I (and, I think, many people) don't like artists with hidden identities is that they can't identify with them on the personal level that you can, say, identify with a modern pop artist. This is the most ludicrous thing I've heard today. You really think you're 'identifying on a personal level' with Britney Spears or Bob Dylan? And anonymous art, like The Odyssey, is meaningless to you? Daft Punk are a great group, not least because they understand that the music itself is the personal level on which we can identify with them.

By: koeselitz

koeselitz — Mon, 11 May 2009 08:23:43 -0800

LSK: I don't mean anything about identifying with their music. I mean identifying with someone in a more Britney Spears-ish "Wow, that person makes mistakes - they're not a robot, they're as human as I am." Ah, I see. You're one of those people that doesn't really care about music so much as the people that make it. That's perfectly all right—you're entitled to your likes and dislikes. I guess I'm just the other kind—you know, the type of person who actually cares about music.

By: Bugbread

Bugbread — Mon, 11 May 2009 09:45:29 -0800

"I still think the adaptation of arena-style stage and lighting rigs is one of the worst things to happen to electronic dance music. In the earlier years people didn't align themselves to face a stage" I've got no problem with the arena-style stage and lighting rigs, because, in my experience, that's not the reason everyone looks at the stage. Fame is. When I've been to small parties with unknown DJs, people looked less at the DJ. When I've been to big parties, with famous DJs playing on turntables, even with no lasers, fog, spotlights, arena-stage, or anything else, people all looked at the DJ. So if people are going to look at the DJ anyway, even if he's just a guy at a table, you may as well give some eye candy. Conversely, I guess, what bothers me is that people look at the DJ even without any visual accoutrements. Unless there's something fascinating to see, why should I look up at a guy rifling through his album collection and staring intently at the EQ sliders, when I could look at all the dancing people? Inevitably, I was the only person dancing facing away from the DJ at the clubs I went to.

By: mikelieman

mikelieman — Mon, 11 May 2009 11:07:30 -0800

Conversely, I guess, what bothers me is that people look at the DJ even without any visual accoutrements. Unless there's something fascinating to see, why should I look up at a guy rifling through his album collection and staring intently at the EQ sliders, Reclaim the spirit of the rave by refocusing it away from the DJ

By: Juliet Banana

Juliet Banana — Mon, 11 May 2009 12:47:19 -0800

One argument for the crazy stage show: you feel better about paying a lot of money for a ticket when some money and time went into the stage show. OK, hold up, don't take away my glowsticks and rainbow bandanna quite yet, OK? Some of my best friends are DJs. Some of my favorite music is made live in livingrooms, while someone triggers samples and effects as I smoke a cigarette and nod appreciatively. The majority of shows/house parties I go to are underground, sometimes literally, and you've never heard of most of the DJs I've seen spin. I've had dance parties in my living room. This is not a dick-measuring contest as far as obscure electro indie cred goes. However, I really enjoy the crazy stage shows. I paid $20 goddamn dollars to get into a MSTR KRFT show at Bar of Modern Art. If it was two dudes tucked into a tiny booth, well, I would have enjoyed myself, and I would have danced, but I doubt people would have been mobbing the stage and flipping out like they were. Instead, they were playing surrounded by stacks of TVs playing pornographic clips (SFW) and trippy visuals. It was way worth the money, and I can't wait until they come back to town on June 12th. Modeselektor, in particular, is famous for their live show. I perk up whenever I see them on lists for festivals I'm debating attending, and I've wanted to see them for years. Do I listen to their albums all that often? Well, no. But I don't want to miss the chance to drop some rolls to the face and see them live.

By: Bugbread

Bugbread — Mon, 11 May 2009 13:19:49 -0800

"Reclaim the spirit of the rave by refocusing it away from the DJ" That strip is all about the epic trance scene, but I've never seen the DJ worship nearly as hardcore as in the goa/psytrance scene. "The DJ is a shaman who guides people on a journey" is the kind of bullshit that gets said in total earnestness. Also: Tiesto is great (I was a big big fan before I knew he was famous), and PVD writes some awesome tunes (I dunno if he's a good DJ or not, I've never heard his mixes, just the music he writes). I don't think the problem is with Tiesto and PVD (and all the rest) themselves, but the attitude towards them. 'Course, I've never met them in person, so maybe they are self-absorbed gits. But that shouldn't stop you from going to their shows if you like their music. Neither should it make you look at them the whole time you dance. Nor should it make you stand in front of the stage and put your hands up in the air. (What's up with that? Is it a British thing, or do Americans do it too? I don't think I've ever seen it in Japan, but I've never been to a show as big as the British shows)

By: meanie

meanie — Mon, 11 May 2009 20:08:11 -0800

At least spell the name of the festival correctly: Even Furthur. I was there. It was an amazingly good time. The video is only of the stage area - there were about 5000 people behind the person who shot the video.

By: flaterik

flaterik — Tue, 12 May 2009 00:17:53 -0800

I think if you check my scant FP history you'll know how I feel about epic trance djs and that kind of focus, and I tend to agree with loq about the focus on them being a Bad Thing. But a full on balls to the wall production like daft punk does? It's really hard to hate. I so wish I'd been at coachella That Year. Even the recording of it gives me chills, and I'm not much of a daft punk fan (I tend to like my house a lot deeper and darker).