Comments on: Chandrayaan-3 has landed; India has made it to the moon

Chandrayaan-3 has landed; India has made it to the moon

mhoye — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 07:23:01 -0800

The Indian Space Research Organization's Chandrayaan-3 Vikram lander has successfully touched down near the moon's south pole. This video of the ISRO control center during Vikram's descent and soft landing from earlier today is tense and joyous.

By: We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese

We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 07:55:51 -0800

I'm such a sucker for control center videos. Just love watching a roomful of happy nerds! Additionally the split screen with Modi brought to mind, "moon landers for some, tiny Indian flags for others."

By: bombastic lowercase pronouncements

bombastic lowercase pronouncements — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 07:59:45 -0800

i have such a complicated set of feels about this:

yay space!
yay india!
yay lunar south pole!
fuck you modi go fling yourself into the sun
yay water ice on the moon!

By: seanmpuckett

seanmpuckett — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 08:02:09 -0800

modi is a shitgibbon but for a few brief glimpses i saw the little boy inside him being very very excited and then he remembers he has to be proper and prime ministerial so glad for all the people who made this happen, they deserve to be proud and happy and full of joy.

By: supermedusa

supermedusa — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 08:03:54 -0800

yay India!

By: Insert Clever Name Here

Insert Clever Name Here — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 08:06:07 -0800

Here's the lander's exact position as per Wikipedia.

By: y2karl

y2karl — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 08:06:11 -0800

i have such a complicated set of feels about this... What you said, buddy, what you said. But also, what supermedusa said as well. This is such a step forward.

By: bombastic lowercase pronouncements

bombastic lowercase pronouncements — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 08:12:10 -0800

if anyone, anyone non-fascist was pm right now this would be my favorite thing ever, but instead i'm like well this is cool but also fuck hindutva and fuck modi for making people across the world think that hinduism is hindutva and hindutva is hinduism. the second, no, millisecond that guy is out of office i am going to stan so hard for the isro. let's hope that 1: someday we won't have to think about that guy again 2: the isro keeps bagging more "first to [x]" prizes .

By: Nelson

Nelson — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 08:21:10 -0800

For anyone else in a hurry, the touchdown in the linked video starts about 44 minutes in. The applause starts at 44:49. MHoye's second link is to 40m in which gives you more context.

By: grumpybear69

grumpybear69 — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 08:30:59 -0800

Hey, they used animations to give people a pseudo 3rd-person view of the lunar module landing, just like the Apollo 11! This is apparently A Thing.

By: mediareport

mediareport — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 08:37:10 -0800

Space.com has a bit more detail about the science payloads of the rover and lander, which includes: Spectro-polarimetry of Habitable Planet Earth (SHAPE) investigation that will assist with exoplanet searches. The experiment will "gather data on the polarization of light reflected by Earth so that researchers can look for other planets with similar signatures I assume the two tools below will be searching for evidence of water, among other things: - Alpha Particle X-ray Spectrometer (APXS) to look for elements in the lunar soil and rocks; - Laser Induced Breakdown Spectroscope (LIBS) to examine the chemical and elemental composition of the lunar surface. Also noteworthy that India signed the U.S.- led Artemis Accords when Modi visited Biden in D.C. this summer, committing to basic principles of peaceful exploration, interoperability of systems, emergency assistance, preserving lunar heritage sites, managing orbital debris and more. China and Russia haven't signed, which isn't a surprise given suspicions among politicians in the U.S. and those countries.

By: mumimor

mumimor — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 08:49:27 -0800

My mixed feelings go like this: 1: Why are so many people and governments focused on space exploration when we really, really need to save ourselves on this planet? It's like an insane level of procrastination 2: Those scientists and engineers must be so proud and it is very well deserved 3: The tension after the Russian failure must have been pretty intense 4: and yeah, fuck Modi 5: On the other hand, go India!

By: Kattullus

Kattullus — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 09:03:51 -0800

Space exploration is embedded in history. Many of the first steps taken by the Soviet Union, and Richard Nixon's signature is on six plaques on the lunar surface.

By: brainwane

brainwane — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 09:08:09 -0800

I tuned in to the livestream and tears ran down my face. God it's wonderful to get to virtually be with a bunch of nerds in Bangalore who are so utterly happy that they've been able to do an amazing thing. While watching and waiting, I reread Iona Datt Sharma's lovely short scifi story "Heard, Half-Heard, in the Stillness" on India's space program. (Audio version also available.) (Previously on MeFi.) Aspiring astronaut Ekta celebrates Diwali while hoping her name will be called for a mission.

People often pointed it out to Ekta, as if she were unaware of the Mars Orbiter's picture on the two-thousand-rupee banknote, but she'd learned not to be irritated—she understood people's urge to touch the beyond, to be a part of something they would otherwise never see."

The story doesn't much care for Modi either, btw.

By: gurple

gurple — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 09:11:04 -0800

1: Why are so many people and governments focused on space exploration when we really, really need to save ourselves on this planet? It's like an insane level of procrastination I fervently wish all the human wonder and excitement and effort that's been sucked up by space exploration in the last 60 years could've been funneled into bioscience to improve human health, or renewable energy to save the world. Displacing space as the single science thing that most captures the public imagination seems intractable, though. I mean, all people have to do to get excited about space is look up at night.

By: NotAYakk

NotAYakk — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 09:15:16 -0800

> 1: Why are so many people and governments focused on space exploration when we really, really need to save ourselves on this planet? It's like an insane level of procrastination Today, space exploration is relatively easy, yet impressive. "Save the planet" is a large project, and difficult. It could require reshaping national and international norms and institutions to a huge degree, something that is going to be beyond "spend a few billion dollars". What you could do by spending a few billion dollars is stuff like electrical infrastructure, building a nuclear power plant or a battery plant, backing basic research into chemistry and materials science, backing applied battery and hydrogen research, doing initial research on building MW solar satellites, doing research on sulfur planet cooling, etc. (with the note that a combination of the above "hitting it out of the park" could solve the current carbon crisis for ~100 years, assuming that is what you are referring to). None of them are going to produce a relatively easy national "win" like a moon landing or moon base would. And most of it is "new research" (except the infrastructure/nuclear/etc stuff) with unknown ROI, and none of gets close to solving our current carbon crisis alone. Or was that rhetorical?

By: Mayor West

Mayor West — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 09:15:45 -0800

Congrats to India for the quick pivot toward a science victory after the bloodthirsty nuclear eschatology they were gunning for under Ghandi in the 20th century! Not sure if they'll be able to stop the Americans from stealing a cultural victory, but they'll bring it down to the wire.

By: credulous

credulous — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 09:16:05 -0800

Fun fact: The total cost of this mission is the same as one of Jeff Bezos' support ships for his superyacht.

By: The Pluto Gangsta

The Pluto Gangsta — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 09:31:30 -0800

Oh please pretty please let's not derail this thread into another "Space travel is bad, we should take that money and {INSERT PROJECT HERE}}"

By: brainwane

brainwane — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 09:32:34 -0800

The Fediverse posts on the #Chandrayaan3 hashtag have been so lovely to watch. Congratulations in many languages. Relevant Indian art from circa 1700: a Rajput miniature painting of the moon-god Chandra in his antelope-drawn chariot. "Actual Indian moon lander ($75M) cost less than half the movie 'Interstellar' ($165M)." And I saw posts celebrating the women scientists we could see in the control room. Speaking of which, you might remember a 2014 photo from the celebration of the success of Mangalyaan:

as Indian scientists successfully put a satellite into orbit around Mars, a photograph that went viral showed women dressed in gorgeous saris with flowers in their hair celebrating at the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) in the southern city of Bangalore.

It was breathtaking. They looked like they could be my aunts. And that was one of the really moving things about seeing that control room livestream. I grew up on Star Trek and I have cried at Apollo 13 and here, now, I'm seeing people who may well be distant cousins, aunts, uncles of mine with those looks on their faces, the held breath, the earned joy.

By: mediareport

mediareport — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 09:33:01 -0800

The relatively low cost, $77 million, was shocking to me too.

By: sammyo

sammyo — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 09:35:00 -0800

I was able to watch the live feed, really exciting in a nerdist way. The cool part was they updated the three actually interesting telemetry numbers (horizontal speed, vertical speed, height) in real time (1.5 second delay due to distance and 'c'). The frustrating part was they kept cutting to the nice 3d sim, watchers and politicians. It was kinda sweet once I grokked that the master control room (very nasa like) was mostly filled by family! This is really huge, space should be for all humanity. And to answer "question 1" without derail: we need to move all toxic manufacturing off planet, ASAP.

By: Zalzidrax

Zalzidrax — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 09:36:37 -0800

I fervently wish all the human wonder and excitement and effort that's been sucked up by space exploration in the last 60 years could've been funneled into bioscience to improve human health, or renewable energy to save the world. And I fervently wish you would understand that the reason those things aren't happening is because the only people in our society who really hire trained scientists in large numbers are techbros, big pharma, finance, and the war industry, not because they think space is cooler than helping humanity.

By: sammyo

sammyo — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 09:40:55 -0800

Please let's keep this on Chandrayaan-3, what a fantastic achievement!!!

By: sammyo

sammyo — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 09:45:55 -0800

ADITYA-L1 off to Sol and other missions.

By: elkevelvet

elkevelvet — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 09:48:41 -0800

this is a good day for India and a good day for people it's okay to acknowledge that, full stop

By: rhamphorhynchus

rhamphorhynchus — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 10:06:56 -0800

"Actual Indian moon lander ($75M) cost less than half the movie 'Interstellar' ($165M)." An LVM3 costs $63M, which doesn't leave much for everything else. Though maybe ISRO charges themselves mates rates.

By: kirkaracha

kirkaracha — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 10:34:33 -0800

Seeing a group in the control room that was more diverse than the Apollo 11 control room was nice.

By: Soliloquy

Soliloquy — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 10:39:10 -0800

Congratulations India, you totally nailed it!

By: Runes

Runes — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 11:02:37 -0800

The fight scenes in the Kollywood movie they make about this are gonna be EPIC!

By: doctornemo

doctornemo — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 12:39:01 -0800

Kudos to ISRO for this triumph! It's also great news for humanity, as we have a shot at learning more about the moon's south pole.

By: kristi

kristi — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 13:20:38 -0800

brainwane, I totally remember that photo and thought of that, and those wonderful women, when I saw this story in the news this morning. When I saw the story, I longed to just send some congratulations to those marvelous and jubilant celebrants, but I'm not on social media so didn't have a place to put it. But I shall put it here, and just send it out into the universe: CONGRATULATIONS! WHAT A TREMENDOUS ACHIEVEMENT! I AM SO HAPPY FOR ISRO, AND INDIA, AND EARTH, TODAY!

By: doctornemo

doctornemo — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 13:31:30 -0800

Oh please pretty please let's not derail this thread into another "Space travel is bad, we should take that money and {INSERT PROJECT HERE}}" Thank you, Pluto. MeFi's progressive opposition to space is a long-running theme.

By: doctornemo

doctornemo — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 13:31:58 -0800

I am curious about India's role in the forthcoming Lunar Gateway project.

By: MtDewd

MtDewd — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 14:23:09 -0800

They went to the South Pole in the middle of winter????

By: Meatbomb

Meatbomb — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 15:23:39 -0800

4th guys, welcome to the cool club India! If we could get a Sikh in a golden spacesuit on an Indian moonbase I think the timeline might shift back to a more positive Karmic spin.

By: mediareport

mediareport — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 16:59:48 -0800

MeFi's progressive opposition to space Some MeFites' opposition, you mean. The site itself has a long history of thoughtful, useful posts and discussions about space.

By: doctornemo

doctornemo — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 17:33:06 -0800

Some MeFites' opposition Yes, true.

By: EmpressCallipygos

EmpressCallipygos — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 19:12:41 -0800

Why are so many people and governments focused on space exploration when we really, really need to save ourselves on this planet? Here's a partial list of some of the things we now have and use to benefit people on Earth which were initially developed to support space missions: * CAT Scans * Land mine removal tools * Foil blankets * Water purification systems * Insulation * Jaws-of-life * advanced prosthetic limbs Which of those would you have preferred we not have? Please let's keep this on Chandrayaan-3, what a fantastic achievement!!! Agreed. There's a song covered by the "Playing for Change" group, Chanda Mama, which I was told was a Hindi children's song, in the voice of a small child singing to the moon. Playing it myself now. (It's catchy as hell.)

By: IndelibleUnderpants

IndelibleUnderpants — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 20:33:26 -0800

Wait a moment. The world's most populous country can precision land a technological miracle on an object millions of miles away while the vast majority of Indians have limited life options: food deserts, medical care, disparity, toilet availability disparity, economic and social disparity, [insert your disparity here] disparity... Did not America do this already yet still retain ownership of 'disparity'. At least the country is good at something...

By: Ivan Fyodorovich

Ivan Fyodorovich — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 21:34:15 -0800

Global clean energy expenditure in 2022 was about 1 trillion US dollars, of which about 45 billion was in research and development. In the same year, total global expenditures on space (not just exploration, but also military, etc) was about 100 billion US dollars. In the US, the military budget was 750 billion US dollars. Global research and development in pharmaceuticals was about 240 billion US dollars. Global expenditures in space exploration do not amount to much of a "diversion" of funding that otherwise might go elsewhere, assuming that it would, and assuming that a significant portion of space funding doesn't itself contribute directly or indirectly to areas such as climate research and renewable energy development, which in fact it does. If there's a progressive strain of thought opposed to funding of space research on MetaFilter or elsewhere, it represents the same kind of fiscal innumeracy as the widespread misconception in the US and elsewhere that (non-military) "foreign aid" accounts for a significant portion of government expenditures. "Wait a moment. The world's most populous country can precision land a technological miracle on an object millions of miles away while the vast majority of Indians have limited life options: food deserts, medical care, disparity, toilet availability disparity, economic and social disparity, [insert your disparity here] disparity..." I mean, look, complaining about 75 million (US$) spent by India on a Moon lander in the context of the world's most populous country at 1.4 billion people where significantly alleviating those problems would involve trillions is inane. Its 2022 military budget was 81 billion (US$). That lander was about 0.1% of that amount.

By: neuron

neuron — Wed, 23 Aug 2023 21:36:40 -0800

NASA Spinoff

By: the cydonian

the cydonian — Thu, 24 Aug 2023 03:21:53 -0800

My grandfather was one of the first people to join the Council of Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR) in independent India. He was also one of the first people to be issued a passport under the then just-born Republic of India to study optics in Australia under the Colombo Plan. His daughter, my mom, spent 30+ years in Indian Council of Agricultural Research (ICAR) supporting the Green Revolution at first, but later the Yellow (oilseeds) Revolution and lately, research into climate-resistant crops. A lot of this research comes from satellite maps, which India generates on its own. So yes. Science in general, but satellite tech in particular, helps alleviate food sufficiency, especially in times of climate change. The landing module on Chandrayaan 3 is named for Vikram Sarabhai, an early pioneer scientist who spearheaded both space and nuclear research. It is what it is; nuclear engineering was a magnet for smart kids back then. ISRO does have defence links, they do second engineers into missile research and such occasionally. But that's besides the point. For now, I just want to focus on this: on seeing that Vikram lander disengage itself from the rocket, slowly straighten its landers from a horizontal to vertical position, pause for a few moments to check if there are rocks, and then proceed to follow a projected parabola to land in a region that's so alien to our world that it has only 14 days to do what it becomes inoperable because temperatures will fall below -200C. And then, when it did, to see (woman)-scientists like my mom but from a different generation jumping in joy at successfully executing something they failed at in 2019, and something that the Russians failed at only a few days earlier. And then to see my daughter witness all of that in awe. There are bearded, vainglorious, fascist-adjacent ideologues who would like to steal the limelight from the scientists. That too is a distraction. The real magic is the journey itself, and to show to ourselves it can be done by, however you want to define it, my people.

By: mediareport

mediareport — Thu, 24 Aug 2023 06:40:10 -0800

it has only 14 days [before it] becomes inoperable because temperatures will fall below -200C. I hadn't really thought about that reason why it's only expected to last 1 lunar day (~14 earth days). Damn that's gonna make working at the south pole extremely slow and difficult.

By: doctornemo

doctornemo — Thu, 24 Aug 2023 06:56:39 -0800

If there's a progressive strain of thought opposed to funding of space research on MetaFilter or elsewhere, it represents the same kind of fiscal innumeracy as the widespread misconception in the US and elsewhere that (non-military) "foreign aid" accounts for a significant portion of government expenditures. There is, and I agree. I think there's a lot to that opposition, but the financial argument is one. To be fair, the arguments I've heard and read don't focus on space as a proportion of federal outlays so much as in absolute terms. $100 billion! Think what we could do with that...

By: kristi

kristi — Thu, 24 Aug 2023 06:59:04 -0800

Today's Google Doodle celebrates the landing. Yay!

By: brainwane

brainwane — Thu, 24 Aug 2023 07:41:12 -0800

Perhaps some people who have commented in this thread might like to consider what people from India think of Westerners asking whether India's space programs are a good idea. To such folks, I re-recommend that you read Iona Datt Sharma's short story "Heard, Half-Heard, in the Stillness" which I linked earlier. The story includes a person from the US who says to an Indian,

"Ram told me all about you," Leah burbled on, unperturbed by Ekta's uncertainty. "The whole family must be so proud. I guess this is all for the best though. You know, the cancellation and stuff." "Is it?" Ekta said, startled, looking out over the edge of the raised verandah to the maidaan below. "How is that?" "It's just, it must cost a lot, the space stuff," Leah said. "Right?" "It doesn't cost that much," Ekta said absently. In a televised speech, Modi had once pointed out that if you measured it in rupees-per-mile, the Mangalyaan mission had cost less than a rickshaw journey in Allahabad. Comparing our Ekta to a rickshaw-walla, Dadi had said indignantly before throwing dhokla at the computer screen. But despite its source, Ekta had liked the comparison. "As a percentage of the overall government budget it's insignificant." ... "But India's so poor," Leah said earnestly. "And it's only a young country when you think about it. Maybe it's better if you people stay home for now, huh? Clean up your own backyard a mite before you head out into the neighbourhood. It's for the best."

Ekta's response is memorable.

By: seanmpuckett

seanmpuckett — Thu, 24 Aug 2023 07:56:51 -0800

I keep coming back to the $27M mission cost and my mind keeps exploding. This achievement is all the more amazing that it was done for maybe five cents per capita.

By: mediareport

mediareport — Thu, 24 Aug 2023 19:38:27 -0800

All the reports I'm seeing put the cost at ~$75 million, seanmpuckett, from an ISRO estimate in 2020, so it's likely the real cost after COVID delays would up significantly higher. Also interesting, according to this CNBC article, NASA is now budgeting the same amount for its contracts with the private companies building moon landers for the agency: Perhaps the most remarkable aspect of India's moon landing is the shoestring budget — by government standards — with which the country achieved the mission. In 2020, the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO) estimated the Chandrayaan-3 mission would cost about $75 million. The launch was delayed two years, which likely increased the overall mission's cost. ISRO has not responded to CNBC's request for an updated cost figure. But that rivals the lowest-cost lunar lander missions in development in the U.S. NASA in recent years turned to having companies compete for fixed-price contracts to build moon landers, under a program it calls Commercial Lunar Payload Services. The CLPS program has a maximum budget of $2.6 billion over 10 years, with 14 companies vying for mission contracts typically worth upwards of $70 million each. That said, there are much more expensive NASA contracts, involving multiple trips and eventually astronauts, like the $3.4 billion moon lander contract awarded to Blue Origin in May (Amazon will match that and expects the project to cost $7 billion in all), and the $2.9 billion in 2021 and another billion last November awarded to SpaceX. I guess humans in space is a more expensive proposition by orders of magnitude.

By: mediareport

mediareport — Sun, 27 Aug 2023 13:18:46 -0800

Japan is set to launch its own lunar lander tonight at 8:26pm EST. Smart Lander for Investigating Moon (SLIM) is sharing the rocket ride with a low earth orbit x-ray satellite, X-Ray Imaging and Spectroscopy Mission (XRISM). JAXA livestream starts at 7:55pm EST. Japan's space program has had a number of recent stumbles [Bloomberg, archive] so this launch is being watched particularly closely to see what lessons have been learned: In February, the agency postponed the inaugural launch of the H3, JAXA's successor to the H2-A, after a system malfunction between its main engine and side booster kept the rocket grounded. Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd. spent almost a decade working on the H3, a single-use rocket meant to provide a cheaper, more reliable alternative to competitors such as SpaceX's reusable Falcon 9. A second attempt in early March ended far more dramatically after the rocket's second-stage engine failed to ignite. Operators sent a self-destruct code once it was up in the air, sending the craft and the satellite it carried plummeting into the Philippine Sea. And then in July, the engine of an Epsilon S (the rocket's seventh iteration) exploded during a ground test, causing flames and a pillar of smoke to consume a facility in northern Japan's Akita Prefecture. While no injuries were reported, the incident was a setback not only for the Epsilon series but for the H3 as well, as both rockets use the same new solid rocket booster.

By: GCU Sweet and Full of Grace

GCU Sweet and Full of Grace — Sun, 27 Aug 2023 13:45:23 -0800

Makes me want to launch the Fully Autonomous Terrain Assessment Systems Spacecraft

By: mediareport

mediareport — Sun, 27 Aug 2023 18:55:02 -0800

The JAXA launch was cancelled due to "inclement weather." A bit odd, as you can hear the presenter talk about the sunny and calm weather at 18:46 in the livestream, but then three minutes later at 21:50 he announces the cancellation due to weather and says Mitsubishi Heavy Industries will announce more details later. Strange moment.

By: mediareport

mediareport — Sun, 27 Aug 2023 21:27:01 -0800

Ah, Reuters says it was high winds in the upper atmosphere that caused JAXA to cancel, with next attempt no sooner than Thursday: Although the H-IIA rocket, the Japanese flagship launch vehicle, has a 98% launch success rate, unsuitable wind conditions in the upper atmosphere forced a suspension less than 30 minutes before the planned liftoff. "High-altitude winds hit our constraint for a launch... which had been set to ensure no impact from falling debris outside of pre-warned areas," said MHI's launch unit chief Tatsuru Tokunaga. The new launch date has not been decided, but will be no sooner than Thursday because of necessary processes such as re-fuelling, he added.