Comments on: A combo of trust and earnest nerdiness

A combo of trust and earnest nerdiness

RedOrGreen — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 09:45:36 -0800

The New York Times Company recently acquired The Wirecutter and The Sweethome, "product-recommendation services that serve as a guide to technology gear, home products and other consumer services." Some guy without a blog thinks that is awesome news, and that Brian Lam doesn't get the credit he deserves for building a successful business that doesn't have to cater to either advertisers or investors, but relies instead on "a combo of trust and earnest nerdiness".

By: Sequence

Sequence — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 09:56:26 -0800

I frequently don't actually buy the thing Sweethome recommended, but I still find their recommendations incredibly useful in terms of what factors they're looking at and what problems they found with whatever I'm considering. Usually the problem I find is that my budget is clearly lower than their target audience is anticipated to be spending on a microwave or a comforter.

By: a halcyon day

a halcyon day — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 10:06:39 -0800

I like their review format and appreciate the analysis of common pitfalls as well as providing alternatives to their picks for different situations. Fingers crossed that a major acquisition won't ruin their content because I haven't found anything similar for home appliances and goods— Consumer Reports seems to test an inscrutable selection of models and hides the longform results behind a paywall (NB, my folks had a subscription to CR magazine for many years and the formats and scope of the reviews seem to have changed).

By: Nelson

Nelson — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 10:10:09 -0800

I'm a big fan of the sites and very happy that Brian Lam is getting well paid for his excellent work. But I can't imagine it's good news for the future of those sites to be acquired by a newspaper, even one as esteemed and digital-competent as the NYT. The press release says

Following the acquisition, Mr. Lam will stay on in an advisory role, while Jacqui Cheng, editor-in-chief, and Christopher Mascari, product director, will remain in those roles.

By: incessant

incessant — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 10:12:26 -0800

Lam was interviewed by Peter Kafka on the Recode Media podcast back in June. It's a fascinating listen, delving deep into the business model of The Wirecutter as well as the editorial philosophy of the site. Lam also talks about some of the more noteworthy moments of his past at Gizmodo, including, of course, the iPhone 4 leak.

By: Nelson

Nelson — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 10:21:51 -0800

When he talked about the iPhone 4 leak did he talk about how they had the phone in their hands and missed the most important innovation, the Retina display? BTW, the NYTimes is hiring for the new acquisition.

By: Joey Buttafoucault

Joey Buttafoucault — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 10:27:00 -0800

Matt, I hope you're right. But the thing is, this:

I imagine every step of the development of the Wirecutter/Sweethome was about people laughing at Brian. You can't build a tech site that doesn't publish 20 times a day. You can't build a content site that isn't covered with advertising. You can't build an entire business on Amazon affiliate revenue. You can't take on Consumer Reports and expect to get any traction. You can't pay for this level of in-depth reporting. Ok, great, you built this, but why would anyone ever come back?

... is subject to two conflicting interpretations. Perhaps the project has been validated by the NYT Co. purchase and attendant large payout to Mr. Lam, which seems to be your conclusion. But it could also be viewed as proving that Wirecutter / Sweethome were just treading water, you really can't build a (sustainable) business on Amazon affiliate revenue alone, and these sites will be wrapped up in the NYT Co. media empire and have ads slapped all over them in no time. We'll see. Again, I hope you're right.

By: blue_beetle

blue_beetle — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 10:28:35 -0800

They are what ConsumerReports should have been.

By: Flashman

Flashman — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 10:36:58 -0800

I'd awlays thought that the Wirecutter was originally an offshoot of the Awl, but these articles make scant, or no, mention of this.

By: mama casserole

mama casserole — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 10:38:22 -0800

I like Wirecutter. The reviews seem thorough and have helped me a lot, especially when buying gifts or other products I don't really know anything about. But I have to question the premise that Amazon affiliate revenue is qualitatively better than ad revenue. For a site like Metafilter where product recommendations are incidental and not editorially driven, sure. But for a product review site that makes all of its money from kickbacks when you buy something it tells you to buy, it's not intuitive to me that being beholden to Amazon is any better than being beholden to ads. I guess I should listen to that podcast because maybe it explains what kind of controls Wirecutter has in place to make sure that it doesn't favor products sold on Amazon over products solely available through other channels, or bias itself in favor of higher-priced products that mean bigger kickbacks.

By: vibratory manner of working

vibratory manner of working — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 10:47:15 -0800

Acquisitions like this are always a little worrisome but I'm happier to see them go to the NYT than I would be if it was a tech or web journalism outfit.

By: showbiz_liz

showbiz_liz — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 10:56:55 -0800

I've bought - wow holy shit, I wrote "a half dozen" here but once I tallied it up, it looks like - over a dozen things because the Sweethome and the Wirecutter recommended them. They're great for little everyday things that are terribly annoying when they don't work well, like ice cube trays and earbuds, and also for expensive electronic purchases where you really don't want to waste your money. They do a great job of explaining why they made their choices, so if you have different priorities from them, you'll be able to make an informed choice that's different from theirs. (For example I didn't want a touchscreen on my laptop.) By far my favorite thing about them is the price tiers - I've pretty much always gone for the cheapest recommended item and I've rarely been disappointed. (Some of their recs have changed since I bought them, but I'm still happy with them.) Let's see... these sites are directly responsible for my purchases of: ice cube trays dust mop bed pillows chef's knife travel mug starter tool kit power drill showerhead wireless router earbuds laptop computer (didn't buy the model they recommended but their review was invaluable) digital camera and video camera (these were purchased by my office after I was told "figure out some cheap cameras for us to buy") I never buy this stuff without looking at other reviews first, but that's never changed my mind.

By: octothorpe

octothorpe — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 10:57:04 -0800

I've bought a number of things based on The Wirecutter's recommendation including my beloved Sony NEX-6 camera and our Vizio TV. I'm a little concerned about them being bought but I suppose that the NYT is better than Verizon or ATT.

By: explosion

explosion — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 11:02:46 -0800

But for a product review site that makes all of its money from kickbacks when you buy something it tells you to buy, it's not intuitive to me that being beholden to Amazon is any better than being beholden to ads. Five years ago, I might agree with you. Today, I'm surprised when something *isn't* sold on Amazon. They're not reviewing/recommending niche items (best hand-crafted leather belt), they're reviewing and recommending mass-market items (best coffeemaker). You hit WC/SH because you were looking to buy an X anyway, they tell you the best X, and you were likely buying it from Amazon once you knew which one. If the best X on the market wasn't carried on Amazon, well, wait a month.

By: SansPoint

SansPoint — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 11:10:55 -0800

I love The Wirecutter and The Sweethome. Whenever I need to buy or replace something, I go there first. I like them so much, that I applied to work there, twice. I got the offer to be a Web Producer, and gave serious thought to taking it, except that it would have been too much of a pay cut and a six month contract-to-hire deal. I also interviewed for a social media role, but that didn't go anywhere. Still, there's an alternate universe whee I could now be on the New York Times payroll. Wild.

By: sparklemotion

sparklemotion — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 11:18:16 -0800

But for a product review site that makes all of its money from kickbacks when you buy something it tells you to buy, it's not intuitive to me that being beholden to Amazon is any better than being beholden to ads. It's not clear to me whether you are unaware of The Wirecutter's other affiliate arrangements, or whether Amazon is just so prominent that you're calling it out specifically, but I figured I'd point this out. I guess I should listen to that podcast because maybe it explains what kind of controls Wirecutter has in place to make sure that it doesn't favor products sold on Amazon over products solely available through other channels, or bias itself in favor of higher-priced products that mean bigger kickbacks. Here's part of what they have to say about bias:

Doesn't getting affiliate fees create a conflict of interest and bias? We think it does create a bias—a bias to write about a lot of things with affiliate codes threaded in them... If we recommend something because we are biased or lazy and the pick sucks, you can return the piece of gear and we will make zero dollars.

For me, affiliate links are better than ads because they aren't as ugly, and because the bias that they create is for something that is not actually under review. If the SweetCutter started running pieces on The Best Retail Store, or The Best Online Shopping Experience, they would deserve (and get) much side eye. And while I've only skimmed it, the e-Reader article (Kindles win both the main pick and the upgrade pick, Nook gets the "ugh, if you have to..." spot) would be an easy place to find bias, I'd imagine. Anyways, if they keep writing detailed reviews that show their work, I'm going to keep trusting them.

By: mama casserole

mama casserole — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 11:35:26 -0800

It's not clear to me whether you are unaware of The Wirecutter's other affiliate arrangements, or whether Amazon is just so prominent that you're calling it out specifically, but I figured I'd point this out. Appreciate that, I didn't know they had arrangements with other retailers. Matt's article only mentions Amazon. Anyways, if they keep writing detailed reviews that show their work, I'm going to keep trusting them. Yeah, like I said, I like Wirecutter. I've bought several of their top picks or runner-up picks and been happy. But just because their top pick is great, doesn't mean it's the best. the bias that they create is for something that is not actually under review explosion also made this point and I just don't think it's true. There's a lot of mass-market stuff sold directly by the manufacturer or through non-Amazon channels. The Nook is a good example, but even companies that aren't such direct competitors may choose not to sell their stuff on Amazon. Outdoor apparel makers like Filson and Patagonia come immediately to mind. I was reading a Wirecutter review on the best slippers; the top pick was Haflinger (sold on Amazon) and the runner-up was LL Bean (not sold on Amazon or another affiliate). We'll never know if the choices would be reversed if LL Bean was sold on Amazon and Haflinger wasn't. And for many of us it won't matter--they're undoubtedly both really good slippers and most people would be happy to buy the Haflinger ones to support the site. But to suggest that products not sold on Amazon aren't under consideration kind of begs the question, I think.

By: sparklemotion

sparklemotion — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 12:06:32 -0800

they're undoubtedly both really good slippers Let's say that the WireHome is biased towards Amazon. So the LL Bean slipper is actually "better" than the Haflinger. A customer that trusts the "top pick" and buys the Halfinger will get misled... and end up with a pair of "really good slippers." So, going back to this: But I have to question the premise that Amazon affiliate revenue is qualitatively better than ad revenue. Because most products are sold through some affiliate retailer or another, even if a bias towards affiliate-available products exists, the best affiliate-available option will probably still be pretty darn good, so the customer will get pretty darn good advice. With advertising, comparatively, any given publication will have a limited number of advertisers, and so bias towards the products available from advertisers will meaning picking a "best" option from a much smaller pool. Meaning that what is presented as "best" will likely be quite a bit worse than the true "best".

By: He Is Only The Imposter

He Is Only The Imposter — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 12:14:54 -0800

Man, I love Wirecutter, and always use its recommendations when shopping. I'm glad Lam is getting rewarded for what he built, but I can't imagine it will stay the same for much longer.

By: DigDoug

DigDoug — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 13:11:49 -0800

If he chooses an inferior product in hopes of gaining some short term revenue, his long term revenue will fall from lack of trust. Mr. Lam strikes me as the kind of guy that cares as much about next year's bookings as much as this quarter's. The only thing I have to go on is the fact that the sites he runs haven't steered me wrong, and *many* people I trust have had similar experiences. This is the way business is supposed to operate. Congrats to the team, and please don't screw this up for us, NYT.

By: asperity

asperity — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 13:21:10 -0800

I recommend reviews from Wirecutter and Sweethome often; hope this doesn't end up changing that. I like that even when I disagree with their results (e-book reader article, I'm looking at you -- that review is for the bookstore affiliation, not for the actual device, and their responses to criticism for that article are uncharacteristically bad) they at least tell me how they arrived at their conclusions.

By: KingEdRa

KingEdRa — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 14:33:51 -0800

It should be noted that The Wirecutter and Sweethome don't exclusively focus their affiliate links to Amazon; they will link to the site that has the best price for their recommendations.

By: dirigibleman

dirigibleman — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 16:01:33 -0800

One thing I got on recommendation from The Sweethome is the Shark saw. That thing is legit. My little 12-inch saw cuts faster than my new-ish 26-inch traditional saw. It's not the sturdiest -- it's lost a few teeth and the nut holding the blade in place tends to work loose -- but I abuse the crap out of it. I've even cut down (and up) some small trees with it (I refuse to use a chainsaw). I also like to read the reviews even if I'm not getting what they recommend, so at least I know what I'm missing. Another nice thing about the sites is that they tell you when one of their recommended items drops in price. A real drop, not 30% off an inflated price that's never charged.

By: mathowie

mathowie — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 16:05:51 -0800

Jeff Bezos has this mantra that you need to align a business' needs with the customer, and how few businesses online actually do this. You see it all the time on ad-supported sites. You have lots of great content, but then you pitch newsletters at readers, and you have ads on the top and sidebar, or you might even do an interstitial ad for five seconds before someone can load a page. Those are all good for the advertiser and the site, but they're at odds with readers, who you'd think were your real customers, but aren't. Same goes for someone like Twitter or Facebook. They're always trying to strike a balance between giving users a tool they can use to talk to one another while annoying users minimally with advertising slid into everyone's new post streams. The needs of users (fast, uncluttered social site) don't align with the business (make as much money off ads as possible). With the Wirecutter, you have a site of reviews of stuff, and they even put a summary at the top of pages, like hey, don't even read this if you're pressed for time, just buy this one we chose and you can read the rest of the review if you want. There are no ads. They don't bother you with pitches to join a mailing list they can sell more ads on. They never block a page until you've watched a video first. Every time they go to make a decision about what to add to Wirecutter, they think of the reader first. How can we get people in and out of here faster? How can we get the info they need easier? What can we do to better serve the needs of our readers? That's a lot different than having discussions about where to put more ads, or which ad networks to consider changing to, who the site can partner with to resell their articles, or how else the content can be monetized. The worst case you can imagine is the wirecutter putting up a story of very expensive gadgets only to try and make maximum revenue from Amazon, but they have a large readership that will call them on something like that immediately. Like I said, I've never bought a thing they said was the best and been disappointed. Every tip I've taken from them has resulted in a perfectly fine thing that does what it is supposed to. The site can't be biased or make terrible choices just for money without losing readership and confidence in readers, and so I don't think it's a credible danger to the sites. The wirecutter works because the needs of the customers (readers) aligns well with the site (give people more great information to let them buy more stuff that gives us more money) in a way an advertising site can never match. The Wirecutter sites even link to other places that don't make them the same Amazon kick-backs, because they want to show people where the very best product is regardless. Brian Lam talks in the podcast linked above how they've already partnered with the NYT before on tech columns. They frequently appear as a sidebar in articles by the NYT staff about various bits of technology. Like maybe there's an article about the future of printing at home, how laser printers are affordable and maybe worth buying and color laser isn't half bad and yes color inkjet can make amazing photo prints but will still cost an arm and a leg for new ink. Those are the kinds of op-ed style tech posts that David Pogue pioneered and did well for decades at the NYT. So the NYT runs their standard tech op-eds and on the sidebar in the past they've been adding "And here are the best options from The Wirecutter". This kind of setup means NYT readers get informed and entertained by the columnist's piece but they also get super useful information if they want to buy something as a result. I am pretty sure the sites can continue as-is, and the NYT can figure out a way to incorporate them more frequently in their Business/Tech section. I've heard rumors that the wirecutter made millions per year in amazon money. I don't know if it was going down recently, but I'd imagine they got quite a few good years out of it already and I wouldn't be surprised to hear it was still increasing as more people find it and use it, and return. I really do think it's a win-win deal here. Brian went out and built the site he wanted to exist despite the world telling him many times over it was a bad idea, and he got the last laugh.

By: scruss

scruss — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 17:00:51 -0800

I've never quite understood where the community trust in The Wirecutter came from. I mean, I know people who were the most fervent pre-purchase evaluators out there who just became "just buy what The Wirecutter says". Where and how did The Wirecutter earn this respect? I get that they write long reviews often interspersed with findings from other review sites. To me, this would make them no more worthy than the other sites. Where is the check to show that they aren't compounding bias?

By: bluefly

bluefly — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 17:02:38 -0800

Maybe now they'll hire some editors who care about spelling and complete sentences. I love the Wirecutter, but the writing was not great. Congrats to Brian Lam for making a profitable media site in an era when it's a nigh impossible thing.

By: notyou

notyou — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 17:22:02 -0800

I don't recall the Wirecutter doing credit card recommendations (credit card affiliate deals can be lucrative) -- well they are now.

By: rockindata

rockindata — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 17:39:02 -0800

The reason I trust the wirecutter is that they describe the search process that they do, which is basically what I do, except they have more time to spend on it, and even get to touch and use the products.

By: Dip Flash

Dip Flash — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 19:19:15 -0800

I use the Wirecutter and the Sweethome both for the same thing -- researching things that I need to buy but don't really care all that much about -- and they are fantastic. If there's something I really care about, then I'm going to be willing to put in the time to read a gazillion reviews or go drive around town to test in person (though even then I usually start with one of the two sites). But if I just need a new ironing board or a speaker for streaming music from my phone, I don't want to spend that kind of time. I often don't buy their top choice, but their clear reasoning behind their rankings lets me pick the option that will work ok for me.

By: chrominance

chrominance — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 19:33:45 -0800

I just wish their reviews were better. I've bought maybe half a dozen things based on their recommendations, and many of them turned out to be not the thing I wanted or not very good at all. There's the kitchen scale whose display conked out after being left in a drawer for half a year, which was then corroborated by numerous Amazon reviews I had apparently missed. There's the set of bluetooth headphones that cost more, sounded worse and was more fiddly to use than the Meelectronics headphones I've used ever since. There's the humidifier that doesn't actually seem to make the room any more humid than the old humidifier I bought essentially at random several years ago from Canadian Tire. The router I bought based on their recommendation wasn't bad, I guess, though it turns out to actually be kind of difficult to put OpenWRT or similar on it. Thank god they managed to get the office chair recommendation right, or else I'd have a $1000 smoldering hole in the ground. But that was a purchase I did a lot of research on, including actually going to a Steelcase showroom and sitting in the chair for an hour on a lunch break from work. I didn't just take the Wirecutter's word for it, and I was better off as a result. Now, as a media enterprise, I think it's done a swell job. Brian Lam and co have managed to build authority in areas that traditionally have had no authority—where exactly were you going to find comprehensive reviews of food scales before the Wirecutter? That's one hell of a feat in this day and age. The concept is great. I just wish the reviews were better at actually finding great products.

By: Dip Flash

Dip Flash — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 19:36:48 -0800

I just wish the reviews were better at actually finding great products. Something that looking at many of the reviews makes me notice is how often none of the choices are great, and choosing one is just a process of deciding which so-so option to pick. That's frustrating, but also kind of relaxing when you can lower your standards a bit and accept some mediocrity. In cases where there really is a better option, then it is just frustrating.

By: Harvey Kilobit

Harvey Kilobit — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 20:25:54 -0800

They are what ConsumerReports should have been. I completely disagree. Consumer Reports has a testing lab; they buy all the products and really check them out. Wirecutter's reviews are just surveys of what other online reviewers have said -- that is, they're just a meta-filter of other people's reviews. The meta-review bias shows up in their preference for high-end overkill, since that's what the big magazines & websites like to profile. My mental image of a WC reader is some Silicon Valley tech winner who's been living at work for the last five years and suddenly has to fill up his formerly-spartan McMansion. Who else really says "I don't want to research it, I just want to buy whatever's the best 80-inch TV"? I've always had better luck buying CR's recommendations than Wirecutter's.

By: Dip Flash

Dip Flash — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 20:56:38 -0800

Who else really says "I don't want to research it, I just want to buy whatever's the best 80-inch TV"? I can really relate to that. Well, not the 80" TV thing, but just the issue of sometimes needing to buy things out of necessity without finding the process of picking all that interesting. Most consumer electronics are that way for me -- I don't find them intrinsically interesting, so a well-researched list of the best options for a particular price point is golden. I hope the Times doesn't mess with what makes those two sites work well (and can loan them a few copy editors).

By: vibratory manner of working

vibratory manner of working — Tue, 25 Oct 2016 23:14:20 -0800

. Wirecutter's reviews are just surveys of what other online reviewers have said -- that is, they're just a meta-filter of other people's reviews. That's not true though? They do use other reviews, especially when narrowing down their initial field of consideration, but they commission their own testing, often pulling in domain experts to run that testing.

By: rollick

rollick — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 03:53:53 -0800

There are ads on the Wirecutter: right there on the sidebar. The last time I tried to use it, there was an autoplaying video that wouldn't mute or stop -- any time I paused it, it would start up again after thirty seconds. It was intolerable. I just checked a random page, and it's the same story, although that one at least had a mute option, and didn't restart without permission. (Not trying to grouse -- I like the site a lot, even if the prices are usually a little out of my range. Just weird to see an obvious untruth accepted as fact here).

By: R a c h e l

R a c h e l — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 09:18:29 -0800

I love the site, and I have at least a dozen things purchased on their recommendation, but I'd love it if they used this as an opportunity to re-evaluate the sweethome/wirecutter distinction. I find it nonsensical and confusing in many categories - for instance, the wirecutter has the water bottle recommendations and the sweethome has travel mug recommendations (????).

By: R a c h e l

R a c h e l — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 09:22:26 -0800

I'd awlays thought that the Wirecutter was originally an offshoot of the Awl, but these articles make scant, or no, mention of this. I'd also wondered this - this 2012 article (from the nytimes, where else?) says that the site was launched "in partnership" with the Awl, whatever that means.

By: Room 641-A

Room 641-A — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 09:26:26 -0800

I missed this because I was vacuuming with my Sweet home recommended Shark Navigator, and I'd write more, but I think that's the UPS guy delivering my Sweethome recommended Saville fan.

By: vibratory manner of working

vibratory manner of working — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 11:52:01 -0800

I never knew there was a link between the Awl and the Wirecutter but now that I do I'm mad at the Sweet Home for breaking the pattern

By: Jesse the K

Jesse the K — Sat, 29 Oct 2016 13:17:49 -0800

Consumers Union (Consumer Reports' non-profit publisher) made the mold for this kind of in-depth comparative review. While it's behind a paywall, their research costs money and they buy their products retail. If you're making a large purchase, you can get one month of access for less than US$10. The magazine is particularly helpful when evaluating things you don't buy at a store: health, life and long-term care insurance; houses; maintenance agreements; automobiles; cell phone plans; refrigerators; carpets and much more. Your library may have an online Consumer Reports subscription, so you can use ConsumerReports.org from your home.