Comments on: Sit. Down. Stay. Think. Good Dog!

Sit. Down. Stay. Think. Good Dog!

Panjandrum — Thu, 24 May 2012 13:36:52 -0800

"When your dog gazes up at you adoringly, what does it see? A best friend? A pack leader? A can opener?" Gregory Berns of Emory University decided to put a couple canines in an MRI scanner to try and find out what goes on inside their heads (adorable news footage here). The results have recently been published in PLoS ONE.

By: griphus

griphus — Thu, 24 May 2012 13:40:50 -0800

"The dogs were trained to wear earmuffs..." Five bucks says this was considerably harder than getting them to stay still.

By: Stagger Lee

Stagger Lee — Thu, 24 May 2012 13:43:48 -0800

I absolutely love it when academic papers say things like: "Considerable effort was spent fitting and training the dogs to wear earmuffs..."

By: Pogo_Fuzzybutt

Pogo_Fuzzybutt — Thu, 24 May 2012 13:46:28 -0800

It's not that hard to get a dog to wear adorable headwear....

By: Stagger Lee

Stagger Lee — Thu, 24 May 2012 13:47:42 -0800

Unfortunately nobody is going to get the answers here. What they've done is demonstrated the feasibility of brain maps on unrestrained, randomly selected dogs. That's a long way from answering all of those hypotheticals that the article opens with. Still, interesting, and promising for the future. Thanks for attaching the actual academic material, that's always my favorite part, and it helps the community to stand out from all of the link bait and poorly researched tripe online.

By: pyrex

pyrex — Thu, 24 May 2012 13:48:43 -0800

Who's a good test subject..! WHO's a good test subject..! You are! Yes you! YES YOU! Awww who's a good test subject..!

By: HuronBob

HuronBob — Thu, 24 May 2012 13:49:47 -0800

When my dog gazes up at me, she sees God, ironically, it is exactly opposite to what I see when I gaze at her, I see doG.

By: fraula

fraula — Thu, 24 May 2012 13:50:38 -0800

The dog in the video did indeed look quite happy and at ease. The researcher also showed body language and vocal signals of pleasure ;-) Probably feels like a kennel/crate to the dogs once they've been familiarized! This bit from the first article is an interesting perspective:

"It's possible that dogs have even affected human evolution. People who took dogs into their homes and villages may have had certain advantages. As much as we made dogs, I think dogs probably made some part of us, too."

*closes eyes halfway, sighs, stretches* Cats too, methinks.

By: One Second Before Awakening

One Second Before Awakening — Thu, 24 May 2012 13:52:03 -0800

Indeed, as Stagger Lee said, this study doesn't seem to answer the question posed at the beginning of the FPP. If I'm reading the linked study correctly, the results they got answered the question of whether the 'reward centers' of the dogs' brains lit up upon seeing a hand signal indicating a forthcoming treat. The answer, in alignment with our already fairly extensive understanding of conditioning, was yes. Meaning when a dog sees a hand signal indicating a treat is on its way, the dog feels pleasure. I'm under the impression that the main innovation of this study was in its development of methodology for MRI scanning dogs' brains.

By: R. Schlock

R. Schlock — Thu, 24 May 2012 13:52:18 -0800

Both dogs were trained over several months to walk into an fMRI scanner and hold completely still while researchers measured their neural activity. Um, you guys...

By: Panjandrum

Panjandrum — Thu, 24 May 2012 13:52:54 -0800

Thanks for attaching the actual academic material, that's always my favorite part Mine too, can't stand science articles/posts that leave off the actual paper. This in particular is what caught my eye when a co-worker told me about the study:

Although it is technically possible to implement a wide range of restraints, from harnesses to implanted fixation devices, we believe this violates a basic principle of self-determination that is normally reserved for humans, but in this case should be extended to dogs: they should be free to exit the scanner at all times. Similarly, this means that purpose-bred laboratory dogs should not be used as they have no choice.

That's really going above and beyond current standards for animal research and is actually quite radical. I totally agree with your first point though, the paper mostly shows that you can get dogs to sit still in a scanner wearing adorable earmuffs.

By: dortmunder

dortmunder — Thu, 24 May 2012 13:53:15 -0800

Academic 1: What're you doing? Academic 2: Nothing. Why? Academic 1: Some of us were gonna get together and put a dog in the MRI machine. Wanna come? Academic 2: Sure. Sounds a lot safer than the time they put a badger in the particle accelerator.

By: Pogo_Fuzzybutt

Pogo_Fuzzybutt — Thu, 24 May 2012 14:00:10 -0800

Unfortunately nobody is going to get the answers here. What they've done is demonstrated the feasibility of brain maps on unrestrained, randomly selected dogs. That's a long way from answering all of those hypotheticals that the article opens with. Well, that they got results they expected from this is novel in and of itself. I know of labs that do scans of non-human primates and one of the big problems is that the animals have to be anesthetized to do it. You don't get much functional data, and mostly it's entirely structural. That's not worthless - for example if you want to study what genes ar expressed in animals with large amygdala, the MRI will tell you. But if you want to know what parts are involved in choosing one reward over another, it's not so good. An MRI is a freaky, loud, and claustrophobic thing - even studies with children usually require a fair amount of training and practice in a simulator before they ever get in one. It's usually just not possible with un-sedated animals. Getting an awake, non-sedated, animal into the MRI and performing tasks opens up a whole new avenue of research. Of course, some of it (like with other animal studies) will be varying degrees of palatable to the general public. But the ability to see further and better into the brain offers real promise for a better future for a lot of people.

By: colie

colie — Thu, 24 May 2012 14:01:02 -0800

I'm sure I saw an academic study a while back that concluded dogs have only two meaningful brain states: 1. I will eat that thing. 2. I will move my body over there.

By: Stagger Lee

Stagger Lee — Thu, 24 May 2012 14:03:16 -0800

Yeah One Second Before Awakening, that's my understanding as well. They got some baseline scans and demonstrated feasibility, now future researchers can do what they want with this. I'm not saying that to diminish the achievement at all, I thought the article was really interesting, and this is promising.

By: Stagger Lee

Stagger Lee — Thu, 24 May 2012 14:05:21 -0800

Getting an awake, non-sedated, animal into the MRI and performing tasks opens up a whole new avenue of research. Of course, some of it (like with other animal studies) will be varying degrees of palatable to the general public. But the ability to see further and better into the brain offers real promise for a better future for a lot of people. posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 2:00 PM I'm imagining all of the industry benefits, it's not just academia that could run with this: "Hey cool, cattle are calmer when they're wearing adorable earmuffs, and now we can get them to lie still until the conveyor belt gets them to the stunner and the kill floor!"

By: jquinby

jquinby — Thu, 24 May 2012 14:06:40 -0800

Your dog wants steak.

By: fearfulsymmetry

fearfulsymmetry — Thu, 24 May 2012 14:07:20 -0800

Obligatory Larson

By: JHarris

JHarris — Thu, 24 May 2012 14:08:49 -0800

A portion of a cat's brain, in assembly: JMP oncounter ... oncounter: JSR preen snaxloop: JSR searchsnax JSR counthumansinsight LDA humansseen BEQ snaxloop JSR evadepursuit JMP naptime A portion of a dog's brain, in assembly: mainloop: DOG JMP mainloop

By: R. Schlock

R. Schlock — Thu, 24 May 2012 14:08:57 -0800

1. I will eat that thing. 2. I will move my body over there. 3. Can't talk. Pooping.

By: griphus

griphus — Thu, 24 May 2012 14:13:13 -0800

4. Can't poop, something smells like a thing.

By: Pogo_Fuzzybutt

Pogo_Fuzzybutt — Thu, 24 May 2012 14:26:47 -0800

"Hey cool, cattle are calmer when they're wearing adorable earmuffs, and now we can get them to lie still until the conveyor belt gets them to the stunner and the kill floor!" I'm not disagreeing so much as wondering how they might get a cow into an MRI to even find this out...

By: basicchannel

basicchannel — Thu, 24 May 2012 14:29:22 -0800

CAPS LOCK IS HOW I FEEL INSIDE. ALL THE TIME.

By: Joey Michaels

Joey Michaels — Thu, 24 May 2012 14:30:22 -0800

For my money, there is no greater insight into how the dog brain works that is ever going to be more accurate than HyperboleAndAHalf.com's Simple Dog.

By: blucevalo

blucevalo — Thu, 24 May 2012 14:31:58 -0800

I don't need an exhaustive scientific analysis to tell me that when my three dogs gaze up with wet eyes at me they're just trying to tell me, "Freaking feed me already."

By: jocelmeow

jocelmeow — Thu, 24 May 2012 14:37:01 -0800

Okay, fine, I'm impressed with the dogs' ability to be trained to go into the MRI scanner. But I bet I would be just as impressed with your average cat's ability to avoid going into it.

By: Lou Stuells

Lou Stuells — Thu, 24 May 2012 14:37:49 -0800

I know of labs that do scans of non-human primates I see what you did there.

By: Johnny Wallflower

Johnny Wallflower — Thu, 24 May 2012 14:40:52 -0800

dogs have only two meaningful brain states Not counting the apparently unique ability to understand human gestures.

By: infinitewindow

infinitewindow — Thu, 24 May 2012 14:41:17 -0800

5. Hey!

By: elizardbits

elizardbits — Thu, 24 May 2012 14:42:13 -0800

I am pretty sure when my dog looked up at me he saw the total pushover who was also prone to dropping taco fixins on the floor. I'd love to see them do cats next but seriously, lol not gonna happen.

By: briank

briank — Thu, 24 May 2012 14:46:48 -0800

6. SQUIRREL!

By: jamaro

jamaro — Thu, 24 May 2012 14:51:17 -0800

It's easy to get a cat into an MRI machine, just put an empty cardboard box in the middle of it.

By: Panjandrum

Panjandrum — Thu, 24 May 2012 14:51:30 -0800

I can't believe we've gotten this far without a "I have no idea how these people got their dogs wedged into their MRI scanners, or why."

By: Bwithh

Bwithh — Thu, 24 May 2012 14:51:59 -0800

Not a breakthrough until they do the comparison study with cats... But how will they train the cats??

By: memebake

memebake — Thu, 24 May 2012 14:53:39 -0800

There is a precedent for putting animals in fMRI machines ... In the fMRI scan, it looked like the dead salmon was actually thinking about the pictures it had been shown ...

By: memebake

memebake — Thu, 24 May 2012 15:00:54 -0800

Another Larson about understanding dogs

By: zombieflanders

zombieflanders — Thu, 24 May 2012 15:03:57 -0800

Sure. Sounds a lot safer than the time they put a badger in the particle accelerator. Research badger don't care.

By: Stagger Lee

Stagger Lee — Thu, 24 May 2012 15:14:23 -0800

There is a precedent for putting animals in fMRI machines ... In the fMRI scan, it looked like the dead salmon was actually thinking about the pictures it had been shown ... posted by memebake at 2:53 PM on May 24 [1 favorite +] [!] "To illustrate the magnitude of the problem we carried out a real experiment that demonstrates the problem of not correcting for chance properly." That doesn't really apply to what we're looking at here, although I suppose the concerns could very well apply to future research. The headline of the Wired article, "Scanning Dead Salmon in fMRI Machine Highlights Risk of Red Herrings" is exactly why I hate science journalism.

By: valkyryn

valkyryn — Thu, 24 May 2012 15:15:51 -0800

Five bucks says this was considerably harder than getting them to stay still. Actually... I doubt it. "Stay" is a pretty basic command that most dogs can master with a minimum of effort for all involved. My parents' dog will stay absolutely stock still while we hide a toy elsewhere in the house until we tell her to go get it. Minutes at a time. Dogs just love working. What we think of as tricks, they seem to think of as stuff to do that humans like, which is AWESOME. The difference between training your dog to sit, stay, and fetch and training them to sit in an MRI for a bit isn't actually all that big. So to me, this looks like a slightly more intense version of your standard obedience or work-dog training. Probably took a few months, because that's about how long it takes to really teach a dog something, i.e., get them to get what it is that you want.

By: BitterOldPunk

BitterOldPunk — Thu, 24 May 2012 15:44:45 -0800

Cats too, methinks I'm pretty sure that I evolved specifically to perform the function of Cat Concierge.

By: peagood

peagood — Thu, 24 May 2012 16:45:55 -0800

Larson also told us how to get cats into the MRI machine.

By: Devils Rancher

Devils Rancher — Thu, 24 May 2012 17:00:13 -0800

6. SQUIRREL! My son will get the dog in a bear hug, then holler "there's a squirrel!" the ensuing tussle as the dog tries to break free and make for the yard is one of the most hilarious thing either of them does.

By: symbioid

symbioid — Thu, 24 May 2012 17:32:47 -0800

colie: "I'm sure I saw an academic study a while back that concluded dogs have only ~~two~~ three meaningful brain states: 1. I will eat that thing. 2. I will move my body over there." 3) Laugh at the hunter who can't hit the duck.

By: acb

acb — Thu, 24 May 2012 17:43:36 -0800

I wonder what cognitive category a cat places a human who feeds/plays with/takes care of it. Mother? Particularly dull/clumsy kitten? Inanimate object with useful properties? Or something bizarre like a special case of a unit of territory?

By: R. Schlock

R. Schlock — Thu, 24 May 2012 17:45:51 -0800

Despised god.

By: Bunny Ultramod

Bunny Ultramod — Thu, 24 May 2012 17:47:43 -0800

I was a little disappointed that we're really just at the start of this research, as it's of particular interest to me. I can't say precisely why. I do know that, if there is ever a documentary about me, and they ask if there is something about me that might surprise people, everybody who knows me will say "Well, he spent a lot of time wondering about dogs." My girlfriend caught me changing the subject of a discussion yesterday. She saw some twins, and she said "I wonder if it is weird for them to be twins." And I said "I often wonder if dogs don't find it weird to be dogs." I was in earnest. I think both the comedy and tragedy of dogs is that they try so hard to fit in in the human world, and fail so much. You can tell that they know when they have messed up, and are hideously ashamed of the fact. I means, twins? All they know is being twins. They aren't going to find it weird, because its just how they are. But dogs? Dogs are creatures that want to be humans and aren't. So, yes, I think dogs find it weird to be dogs.

By: sonascope

sonascope — Thu, 24 May 2012 18:36:47 -0800

When I lost my Shar Pei/Lab mix back in 2009, I decided that I needed to have two dogs the next time around, because I always felt like I'd set my poor dog up to be lonely when I was working. I ended up with a definitive odd couple, with a beagle and a Carolina Dog. The beagle is an unusually tiny beagle at twenty pounds, but he's just...beagley. Not super smart, easily misled, ready to bay with his pack, and stubborn as a goddamn mule. He's adorable. My Carolina Dog, on the other hand, is like a Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom DVD box set with fur. The whole discovery of Carolina Dogs as a distinct landrace of dogs that predate European colonization of North America is a story unto itself, with the enormous reservation of land set aside for the Savannah River Nuclear Site figuring into the survival of an ancient breed left to evolve into a new environment. As a branch of the "pariah" or "primitive" family tree, they're very close to what a dog becomes when they're not bred for human uses. Daisy, my CD, is absolutely fascinating, and having Lou (beagle, esquire) as a sort of control group makes for really interesting observations about the intersection of dogs and humans. Lou's cuddly and food crazy and seeks out attention of the traditional dog-human sort, but Daisy's more aloof, more independent, and has odd quirks like how she responds to being petted. Wait, what's your hand doing? Oh, you're going to pet me. "How's it going, buddy?" It's fine. Yes, you're petting me. Are you done yet? No? Sigh. "Jeez, you're as fickle as a damn cat," I'd mutter, because she actively avoids petting, preferring to bring me the large shaggy mass of knotted rope that's her favorite thing in the world. Here. Take this. No—just kidding, don't take it. No, here it is—ha! I was kidding! "I'm not going to throw it unless you let go of it, dummy." Okay. Here. Kidding! No, seriously—here. Ha! No, come back...here it is. Nope! The signs and actions can be a little subtle. All dogs are alert to the world, but Daisy seems to have this sort of supernatural skill, like vision in the ultraviolet or something. Lou responds to motion and familiarity, tipping his snout up to hoooooooooooooooooooooo! in that perfect sonorous beagle bay, but Daisy makes yodely whoops and gawoos and growps and a weird hoarse fluting thing that's used for very specific things. It's just a joy to watch, because so much of it is so mysterious—rooted in skills and behaviors designed for the swamps and riparian environs of the deep South. Really? Again? What's with you and all this petting, you perv? I really haven't ever met a dog so obviously annoyed by petting, but it's a trait common in CDs, among some of their other little oddities, like the snout pits and the snake-whipping and the constant emergence of fixations that don't make a lot of sense until you let yourself think your way into ancient history, when her ancestors first made their way across the Bering Strait land bridge. She knows I'm the boss, though, and likes to test the boundary, but only so much. When I get home, if she can't find the shaggy rope thing fast enough, I get the Vivian-Vance-meeting-Bob-Cummings smile—an absolutely hilarious gesture where she wrinkles her nose and reveals her top teeth in what would look sort of like a half growl if I didn't know it was a submission gesture and mentally imagine her saying "Ohhh Mr. Cummings, I'm your biggest fan!" Oh no, here's the damn hand again. I've got the only dog in the world who can actually model the teenage eye roll, but I can't help but pet her because she's adorable and has built-in eye makeup like a young Siouxsie and those fucking insane radar ears...but I digress. Primitive dogs are just more independent, more inclined to play and run and kill things and shove that damn rope thing in your mouth while you're sleeping because they may not think they're people, but they're pretty sure you're some kind of fucked up dog who prances around on hind legs for god knows what reason, and when I think about it, I think she sees being petted in the way I see the strange fixation on nipples among the big gay bears of North America. Oh, no. Are you going for my nipples again? Yeah, fine, whatever. You know they don't really do anything, right? Yep, now the tuning-the-radio thing. Gotcha. Ah, the biting. Sigh. "You like that?" Just get the damn rope toy, already. We run together, little beagley Lou and Daisy the ancient exotic, and I don't really know how they see me, and I never will, with any certainty, but— There's a voice I do for Lou that's somewhere between Gomer and Bill Clinton, that's always grousing and expressing funny Southern attitudes, but no matter how looney and cutesy I get with my dogs, I've never been able to come up with a voice for Daisy, because it feels like bringing a radio on a camping trip—you think it's going to be cool, and then you hear the wild woods and the birds and the wind in the trees and the brook down in the gully by the campsite and that tinny little noise just sounds so wrong. Everything she says to me is my own projection, rendered in imaginary thought bubbles in a language I barely understand, but I'm learning. I've read a lot of theory about how humans and dogs are virtually a gestalt bonded species, with human and dog evolution a sort of push and pull that's not just the usual hegemonic master and client relationship. Dogs hung with us because we fed them, humans warmed to dogs because they watched out for us, so they got better at being dogs instead of wolves and we learned to love them and that perfect evolutionary dance drifted and dipped and spun to the rhythms of the setting sun and the shifting seasons until we arrived in the future with computers and magic and the vent in the dashboard like a ticker tape of all the wondrous scents we're rushing through at the pace of a pack chasing down the moon. It's a cold night, one more of the perks of this inexplicable Maryland spring that's defying the usual rules about steaming us like lobsters before May trickles away, and I'm curled up with Lou snoring at my feet. Daisy usually prefers her favorite chair in the other room, but comfort trumps dignity, and I hear her nails clicking into the room on the pine. I turn on the little lamp there, and she's standing there, waiting. "What, you want an engraved invitation?" She stands there. Ears up, a little furrow between her perfect mascara eyes. "Sheesh," I say, and lift the edge of the flannel sheet. Ears flip back, and she steps up with the grace of a leopard finding the right low branch from which to plan the perfect crime, the polar opposite of little bowlegged Lou, who trots around like a stevedore after a night of beer and boxing on the television. There's a step and a swirl and she finds the space that's just right, just far enough for her aloof nature, but always with one point of contact, a paw on my knee or the ridge of her spine against my shin, and that's it. I snap off the light and the day starts to fade, and I don't know what these dogs want from me, exactly, but I know they know that we're all in it together, and that's enough. I've always been a coward, and I don't know what's good for me.

By: the_artificer

the_artificer — Thu, 24 May 2012 19:05:30 -0800

It'll be interesting to see what comes of this research, it's a fascinating topic. I loved my dog and with all her quirks at times it sure seemed like there was a person in there. A few years ago I was sick with the worst flu I've ever had, miserable and drifting in and out of consciousness. I'd set up camp in the only place I could get comfortable, my living room recliner. At one point she dropped her ball into my lap and nudged it a couple times with her nose and then looked at me. I petted her a bit, set the ball down and told her it wasn't a good time to play. She went back to her bed, lay down and watched me and I drifted off. When I next woke up I was surrounded by dog toys. She had emptied out her toy box and laid all her different balls, bones, chew toys and pull toys etc. in around me and she lay on her bed ears up, forehead wrinkled and watching my like a hawk. I've always wondered about the purpose of that gesture, was that her way of trying to comfort me or make me feel better maybe performing an experiment on her human? Or is that just silly anthropomorphization? She also used to sulk. Any time I would pull my suitcase out of the closet and start packing she would hop up into my recliner and lay down facing the back of the chair with her back to the living room and ignore me. She only ever did this when my suitcase came out. The last time I went to Europe I was gone for a month and when I came back she spent three days totally ignoring me, it was almost like having a giant cat. On the third night after I had gone to sleep she hopped up on my bed curled up and went to sleep and everything went back to normal. She was a good dog and I would have given quite a lot to know what was going on inside that head. I can't wait to see if these researchers discover anything.

By: carsonb

carsonb — Thu, 24 May 2012 19:48:34 -0800

You Far Side fans missed the most applicable one: How to recognize the moods of an Irish Setter.

By: bleep

bleep — Thu, 24 May 2012 20:01:00 -0800

I'm sure you could get a cat to do that if it was an attractive offer.

By: inigo2

inigo2 — Thu, 24 May 2012 20:13:40 -0800

Any time I would pull my suitcase out of the closet and start packing she would hop up into my recliner and lay down facing the back of the chair with her back to the living room and ignore me. Heh. My dog will just jump on the suitcase and say (pretty much) where the fuck do you think you're going? (And then she realizes she's staying with the neighbor, and changes her tune to "get the fuck out".)

By: research monkey

research monkey — Thu, 24 May 2012 20:51:04 -0800

> Research badger don't care. Are you sure about that?

By: nihraguk

nihraguk — Thu, 24 May 2012 21:15:12 -0800

Yet another fucking awesome story, sonascope.

By: spicynuts

spicynuts — Thu, 24 May 2012 22:00:44 -0800

"Stay" is a pretty basic command that most dogs can master with a minimum of effort for all involved. My dog has not received this memo. Perhaps you can send it again?

By: Saminal

Saminal — Thu, 24 May 2012 23:57:50 -0800

I would love to know what my dog Vanna is thinking. Unlike our sloppy sweet basset hound her actions are sort of a mystery to me. She is more aware of her surroundings than other dogs I've lived with. She notices even cartoon animals on TV and goes to investigate them and she is incredibly obsessed with the contrails and runs under them and barks at the sky. When I make her come inside she checks all the ceilings and windows to make sure the contrail hasn't gotten inside. I am pretty sure I could teach her to sit still with earmuffs on.

By: KevinSkomsvold

KevinSkomsvold — Fri, 25 May 2012 00:22:13 -0800

colie: "I'm sure I saw an academic study a while back that concluded dogs have only two meaningful brain states: 1. I will eat that thing. 2. I will move my body over there." Also, dogs view their owner as a massive salt-lick. Owner: "C'mere.... Good boy! Dog: SALTSALTSALTSALTSALT!!!!!!

By: IAmBroom

IAmBroom — Fri, 25 May 2012 01:47:43 -0800

"Stay" is a pretty basic command that most dogs can master with a minimum of effort for all involved. My dog has not received this memo. Perhaps you can send it again? spicynuts, nothing personal, but it's probably not your dog that missed the memo...

By: DingoMutt

DingoMutt — Fri, 25 May 2012 02:13:02 -0800

Thanks for sharing this, Panjandrum, it was fun to find myself equal parts fascinated and utterly unable to stop blurting out "OHHHH WOOHOO BOOGIE SNOOGIE BOOGUMS" with every link I opened. As our current dog is part Feist I was tickled to see that one of the test subjects was one of these relatively unfamiliar dogs, too (although ours would probably make a poor 'participant' if sitting still was necessary - her near-constant full-body wag makes her look like a bobblehead doll much of the time). The author's speculation on future research directions was exciting - I was especially intrigued by his suggestion that such scans be employed in investigating how dogs process human language, and if - as with humans themselves - it's possible their brains treat it somehow differently from other types of sounds. The influence humans have had on the evolution of various animals is already interesting on so many levels, but the thought that some other creature could have developed anything even approaching a capacity for specialized processing of human speech is mind-boggling. Thanks, too, to sonascope for such a great read (although I feel sort of cheated without pictures of the beasts in question!). I was about to give up on this thread as given over to the usual "cats are so mysterious" remarks; glad I stuck with it to your gem of a comment.

By: salmacis

salmacis — Fri, 25 May 2012 03:32:44 -0800

Mongrels on why dogs bark.

By: spicynuts

spicynuts — Fri, 25 May 2012 06:08:31 -0800

spicynuts, nothing personal, but it's probably not your dog that missed the memo... well, the sit memo was warmly received and embraced. The "come" memo resulted in a degree of skepticism and some questions but ultimately passed muster. Likewise with the "lay down" missive. The "stay" epistle however seems to have been lost in the mail so yes if you are implying that it is the mailman's fault I am willing to concede that Kenneth holds no blame in the matter.

By: judson

judson — Fri, 25 May 2012 08:20:46 -0800

'silly anthropomorphization' We humans do a lot of that.

By: howling fantods

howling fantods — Fri, 25 May 2012 13:51:37 -0800

"The beagle is an unusually tiny beagle at twenty pounds, but he's just...beagley. Not super smart, easily misled, ready to bay with his pack, and stubborn as a goddamn mule. He's adorable." Sounds like the twin brother our beagle never had. ⋮ Now that I think about it... no, just another beagle.

By: Philby

Philby — Fri, 25 May 2012 18:21:22 -0800

sonascope, you are the best.

By: IAmBroom

IAmBroom — Sun, 27 May 2012 00:53:18 -0800

spicynuts: OK, here's exactly what I'm saying. Your side of the communication is:

I told my dog to do A, and he did A. I told my dog to do B, and he did B. I told my dog to do C, and he did C. I told my dog to do D, but he won't do D!

His side of the communication might be:

If Master says A, I am to do A. If my nuts itch, I lick them. bee is kinda fun, and sometimes Master says "B" when I want to do bee, so that's cool. Did you know his feet smell just like that spot on the carpet where some cat peed, a long time ago? But not like fresh cat pee! Hey, funny thing, every time he says C, and I do this thing, he gets all happy. He's cute when he's happy. I gotta try to do this thing more often. My nose itches. Ooh, and it tastes like dog food - score! Why is master still saying D at me? I know; I'll do bee and this thing; that will probably make him super-happy!

You found a way to communicate the other commands to him, but not this one. Yet. Change your dialog. It takes A LOT of training before a dog realizes that whenever you repeat a new word, it also has a behavioral meaning... and in fact, sometimes they never learn it, even if they perform it correctly 100% of the time. For instance, I believed for the longest time my dog followed several verbal commands, until I realized I always accompanied them with hand gestures. No real problem; dogs often "get" somatics easier than verbal commands - but I wanted him to SPEAK on SPEAK, not on "I tap my chin". The changeover took longer than the original training, by far. And I spent months in the delusion that the word SPEAK actually meant something to him - only to discover that with my hands firmly at my side, he had no idea what to do when I said SPEAK. He's still better at obeying/understanding gestures than verbal commands.